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Thrown bat - BI or CI


grayhawk

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I searched but could not see if we've discussed this play before. The ruling on the field was foul (which I believe was correct), but let's say the bat hit the catcher's mitt rather than the ball. What would you have on that play?

 

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17 hours ago, grayhawk said:

I searched but could not see if we've discussed this play before. The ruling on the field was foul (which I believe was correct), but let's say the bat hit the catcher's mitt rather than the ball. What would you have on that play?

 

I would be inclined to have CI if the bat hit the catchers mitt.

I suppose you could get BI if he obviously threw the bat into the catcher.

However, in real time, I'd probably grab CI. In this play, it looks to me like Molina made a legitimate attempt to hit the ball.

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18 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

I would be inclined to have CI if the bat hit the catchers mitt.

I suppose you could get BI if he obviously threw the bat into the catcher.

However, in real time, I'd probably grab CI. In this play, it looks to me like Molina made a legitimate attempt to hit the ball.

That's how I'm leaning. 

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5 minutes ago, Matt said:

That's how I'm leaning. 

Me too.

There is no rule against throwing the bat to contact the pitch. So as long as it's still a pitch (not yet secured by the catcher), then I would have CI.

If the ball made it to the glove first (as long as the catcher hadn't stepped on or over the plate), and the bat contacted the mitt, I would have BI.

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What are you guys seeing that would warrant a catcher’s interference call? Here’s what I see—

Bottom of the 4th inning, 1 out, R1 and no count on the batter, Yadier Molina. The catcher, Brayan Pena, called for a pitchout then rose up from his crouch and took one step to his right (not forward) to receive the pitch. The batter, Molina, threw his bat at the pitch and actually succeeded in hitting the ball. The pitched ball deflected off the bat and hit the catcher high on his left leg in foul territory. The on-field call was foul ball by the HP umpire, Mike Muchlinski, and I think that was the correct call.

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13 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

What are you guys seeing that would warrant a catcher’s interference call? Here’s what I see—

Bottom of the 4th inning, 1 out, R1 and no count on the batter, Yadier Molina. The catcher, Brayan Pena, called for a pitchout then rose up from his crouch and took one step to his right (not forward) to receive the pitch. The batter, Molina, threw his bat at the pitch and actually succeeded in hitting the ball. The pitched ball deflected off the bat and hit the catcher high on his left leg in foul territory. The on-field call was foul ball by the HP umpire, Mike Muchlinski, and I think that was the correct call.

Senor. We were replying to Grayhawk's question in his OP. He asked, "let's say the bat hit the catcher's mitt rather than the ball. What would you have on that play?"

See post #2 in this thread. Highlighted in red.

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Thank you, Mr. JonnyCat, for explaining that to me. I did miss that portion of the OP. So, we have a what-if scenario instead. OK, here’s what I have for that.

From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 5.37, p. 57) discussing rule 5.09(a)(8) Comment—

…If a whole bat is thrown into fair or foul territory and hits a catcher (including the catcher’s glove) and the catcher was attempting to catch a pitch with a runner(s) on base and/or the pitch was a third strike, interference shall be called, whether intentional or not…

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12 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

Thank you, Mr. JonnyCat, for explaining that to me. I did miss that portion of the OP. So, we have a what-if scenario instead. OK, here’s what I have for that.

From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 5.37, p. 57) discussing rule 5.09(a)(8) Comment—

…If a whole bat is thrown into fair or foul territory and hits a catcher (including the catcher’s glove) and the catcher was attempting to catch a pitch with a runner(s) on base and/or the pitch was a third strike, interference shall be called, whether intentional or not…

Thank you @Senor Azul. I have the 2015 MiLBUM and cannot find that reference there. That is a definitive interpretation for this play so I will change my answer!

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The bit of text about the thrown bat hitting the catcher or his glove is in the 2018 MiLBUM but not in the 2014 PBUC manual and it is not shown as a new interpretation for 2018.

Also, the play in the video happened in a game that took place in July 2015. So, if we did discuss it before it likely was nearly five years ago. The HP umpire was Mike Muchlinski with the crew of Wegner, Foster, and Iassogna. As it turned out, the batter, Yadier Molina, hit into an inning-ending double play.

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12 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

The bit of text about the thrown bat hitting the catcher or his glove is in the 2018 MiLBUM but not in the 2014 PBUC manual and it is not shown as a new interpretation for 2018.

Also, the play in the video happened in a game that took place in July 2015. So, if we did discuss it before it likely was nearly five years ago. The HP umpire was Mike Muchlinski with the crew of Wegner, Foster, and Iassogna. As it turned out, the batter, Yadier Molina, hit into an inning-ending double play.

I just ordered the 2019 MiLBUM so I will be more up-to-date.

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Doesn't Rule 5.09(a)(8) Comment apply? That reads, in part, "If a whole bat is thrown into fair or foul territory and interferes with a defensive player attempting to make a play, interference shall be called, whether intentional or not." It's a broader prohibition, but still applicable, isn't it?

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Doesn't Rule 5.09(a)(8) Comment apply? That reads, in part, "If a whole bat is thrown into fair or foul territory and interferes with a defensive player attempting to make a play, interference shall be called, whether intentional or not." It's a broader prohibition, but still applicable, isn't it?

That’s the rule the MiLBUM provides an interpretation for. The key is that this was still a pitch, so the additional guidance is very helpful.
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  • 2 months later...
On 6/6/2020 at 5:16 PM, grayhawk said:


That’s the rule the MiLBUM provides an interpretation for. The key is that this was still a pitch, so the additional guidance is very helpful.

I think we still need more guidance. Facebook generated a review of this play. OBR added 6.03(a)(4) in 2016, possibly as a result of this play in 2015. But I think it doesn't apply to the OP because it was a  legally batted ball. If he missed the rule would apply. But maybe someone with a WUM or BRD vintage post 2015 might find some more guidance.

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Jeff posted the answer. For those not on FB:

In this play we have a pitch out and a right-handed batter swinging to protect his runner. During the swing, the batter throws his bat and it hits the catcher’s glove. This is interference by the batter, and he should be declared out. If we recall, we’ve actually covered a play very similar to this a few weeks ago. While the batter is allowed to throw his bat to hit the ball, he is still responsible for what happens with his bat.
OBR 6.03(a)(4) would cover this, with a thrown bat hitting the catcher while he is trying to catch a pitch.
NCAA is slightly more vague (at the current time) with regard to this, but 7-11-n would cover this. If there is a change with the NCAA rule, this will be the rule number to reference for that applicable change.
This is an extremely rare and difficult play to umpire. On the field, this umpire ruled a foul ball (same as the previous play we posted to cover this rule), because at the time (’15), OBR did not have the specific wording like they do now to cover this (’16 rule change). This would be a call that we would need to be 100% certain on to make.

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54 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Jeff posted the answer. For those not on FB:

In this play we have a pitch out and a right-handed batter swinging to protect his runner. During the swing, the batter throws his bat and it hits the catcher’s glove. This is interference by the batter, and he should be declared out. If we recall, we’ve actually covered a play very similar to this a few weeks ago. While the batter is allowed to throw his bat to hit the ball, he is still responsible for what happens with his bat.
OBR 6.03(a)(4) would cover this, with a thrown bat hitting the catcher while he is trying to catch a pitch.
NCAA is slightly more vague (at the current time) with regard to this, but 7-11-n would cover this. If there is a change with the NCAA rule, this will be the rule number to reference for that applicable change.
This is an extremely rare and difficult play to umpire. On the field, this umpire ruled a foul ball (same as the previous play we posted to cover this rule), because at the time (’15), OBR did not have the specific wording like they do now to cover this (’16 rule change). This would be a call that we would need to be 100% certain on to make.

How can the catcher being trying to catch a pitch when it became a batted ball? I can't tell if the bat ever hit the glove and if it happened before or after the batted ball. 

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