Runners Leave Early

[Guest Damon]

One out. Runners on 1st and 3rd. Batter hits a fly to right. Both runners leave early and the ball is caught. RF throws to 1B for the third out before the runner gets back but the runner from 3rd crossed home before the third out. Does the run count? Can they appeal after the third out?

[Biscuit]

The first part is easy, and the most common question we get. Yes, the run scores. This is a timing play, not a force play.

The second part is considerably more interesting, and involves  one of my favorite things in baseball, the advantageous fourth out. Yes, they can appeal that the Runner left early and record a fourth out. If they do so, that run does NOT score. But, until they appeal that he left early at third, that run does score.

[maven]

Biscuit is correct, except it's a "time play," not timing.

And the apparent fourth out is merely apparent: by rule, the defense may execute an appeal on another runner (for a missed base or retouch appeal) after the third out. If granted, that appeal becomes the third out of the inning (the other is nullified and not recorded by the scorer).

To be considered, the post-third out appeal must be advantageous, which typically involves nullifying a run. In this instance, appealing R3's failure to retouch is advantageous because, when granted, his run will be nullified.

[beerguy55]

8 hours ago, Biscuit said:

The second part is considerably more interesting, and involves  one of my favorite things in baseball, the advantageous fourth out. Yes, they can appeal that the Runner left early and record a fourth out. If they do so, that run does NOT score. But, until they appeal that he left early at third, that run does score.

Not the it matters to the umpire, but to the scorekeeper it is not a fourth out...it is a third out that replaces the other third out.

The first appeal play is nullified (F9 doesn't get an assist, F3 doesn't get a put out).

[ArchAngel72]

On 5/22/2020 at 12:49 AM, Guest Damon said:

One out. Runners on 1st and 3rd. Batter hits a fly to right. Both runners leave early and the ball is caught. RF throws to 1B for the third out before the runner gets back but the runner from 3rd crossed home before the third out. Does the run count? Can they appeal after the third out?

What league or level?

2019 LL Rules Rule 4.09 A The A.R of that section is this expressed example other than the appeal to 3rd but that would be an appeal to 3rd and must take place immediately, with all defensive players on the field and in play with exception of the catcher.

 

 

[Jimurray]

34 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

What league or level?

2019 LL Rules Rule 4.09 A The A.R of that section is this expressed example other than the appeal to 3rd but that would be an appeal to 3rd and must take place immediately, with all defensive players on the field and in play with exception of the catcher.

 

You have that wrong about "all defensive players". For LL an end of inning appeal can not be made after all defensive players have left the field. If one player remains in fair territory, or one player is getting the ball in foul territory or the catcher  wants to appeal it would be allowed. They still would have to do the correct appeal with the ball.

OBR would not allow the appeal if the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory.

[ArchAngel72]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

You have that wrong about "all defensive players". For LL an end of inning appeal can not be made after all defensive players have left the field. If one player remains in fair territory, or one player is getting the ball in foul territory or the catcher  wants to appeal it would be allowed. They still would have to do the correct appeal with the ball.

OBR would not allow the appeal if the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory.

Yeah I worded that wrong.  I was looking at the wording and thinking I had something there off but couldnt place my finger on it.  Got a lot on my mind sorry..