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PLAY

B1’s line drive to right field rolls to the fence. Because there are gaps, the possibility that the ball went under the fence exists. F9 throws up his hands and B1 slows down.Before the umpire can check the status of the ball, F9 reaches down and picks up the ball. B1 resumes running at full speed but is thrown out easily at third.

RULING

By rule, B1 is out. The ball does not become dead when F9 signals; only an umpire can declare a ball dead unless it becomes dead by rule. Players should know to keep playing until an umpire calls “time.” That said, the umpire should use his authority to rule on points not covered in the rules and declare the ball dead, returning B1 to second base (NFHS 8-3-3c).

 

Anyone else disagree?

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The options would seem to be: Play stands: B1 out at 3B ("by rule..."). Protect B1 and return to 2B (RefMag ruling). Protect B1 and leave him at 3B (the result if we treat F9's act

Is that Ruling Interpretation considering the F9's hands going up a form of Obstruction, akin to a Fielder faking a tag attempt on that BR to force him to avoid, juke, stop, or reverse direction?

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The options would seem to be:

  1. Play stands: B1 out at 3B ("by rule...").
  2. Protect B1 and return to 2B (RefMag ruling).
  3. Protect B1 and leave him at 3B (the result if we treat F9's act as OBS).

I'm guessing that noumpere disagrees that this is a "point not covered in the rules." I'd say that whoever wrote the ruling should agree with noumpere, because that ruling starts with the phrase, "By rule..." The author is thus committed to thinking that the point is covered in the rules, and contradicts himself in the next sentence.

Only umpires can call time. F9 raising his hands does not kill it, so the play stands: B1 out at 3B.

Around here, a gap in the fence (either as a result of construction or "settling") is almost always covered in ground rules. "Runners keep running, fielders raise their hands and don't try to retrieve the ball. We'll reset the runners if necessary." So around here, I think that the correct ruling would obviously be to allow the play to stand.

But even if it's not covered in ground rules, that is the rule, and so the point is covered in the rules. Contrary to RefMag's ruling.

So yes, someone else disagrees.

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If a ball rolls under a fence or becomes lodged in/under the fence, it's a dead ball and all runners get two bases from TOP. If fielder raises his arms and umpire is able to determine the ball was lodged or went under, then ball would be considered dead at the time the fielder raised his arms.

In this situation, though, fielder raised arms and before the umpire could determine the status of the ball, fielder picks up the ball and throws it in. At this point, ball is still live and all action continues. Any play stands, unless an umpire can say for certain the ball actually was lodged or went under - which is almost impossible to claim without going out and looking. Also, if you can physically see the fielder reach under the fence to grab the ball, you can kill the play.

B1 advancing at all (even to 2B) is at his own choice and is liable to be put out, as long as an umpire doesn't kill it.

I'm fairly sure there's a case play in the Fed casebook that deals with this exact play.

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  • 7 months later...
On 5/8/2020 at 8:55 AM, maven said:

The options would seem to be:

  1. Play stands: B1 out at 3B ("by rule...").
  2. Protect B1 and return to 2B (RefMag ruling).
  3. Protect B1 and leave him at 3B (the result if we treat F9's act as OBS).

I'm guessing that noumpere disagrees that this is a "point not covered in the rules." I'd say that whoever wrote the ruling should agree with noumpere, because that ruling starts with the phrase, "By rule..." The author is thus committed to thinking that the point is covered in the rules, and contradicts himself in the next sentence.

Only umpires can call time. F9 raising his hands does not kill it, so the play stands: B1 out at 3B.

Around here, a gap in the fence (either as a result of construction or "settling") is almost always covered in ground rules. "Runners keep running, fielders raise their hands and don't try to retrieve the ball. We'll reset the runners if necessary." So around here, I think that the correct ruling would obviously be to allow the play to stand.

But even if it's not covered in ground rules, that is the rule, and so the point is covered in the rules. Contrary to RefMag's ruling.

So yes, someone else disagrees.

Ok, I'm the new guy here with the least amount of training, but this is exactly what I was thinking.

It's akin to what every coach has taught every batter since they were 5 -- if you hit a ball that is going foul, RUN TO FIRST until the umpire calls "foul."  It's not dead until the umpire declares it dead.  

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