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aaluck

Paycheck Protection Program...ACT QUICKLY, YOU QUALIFY

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I URGE all of you to file a claim under the Paycheck Protection Prorgam.  As umpires you are (or at least MOST of us are) an independent contractor and we are all covered and DO QUALIFY.  I did it for my son just now and the process is simple and straightforward.  

Also, if you are part of a small business (owner/employee) you can get relief there as well. In most cases the amount you receive will be forgiven if you comply with the rules.

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/PPP--Fact-Sheet.pdf

Good luck guys.

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Appreciate the heads up.  What I'm hearing is that as Independent Contractors we won't be able to apply until April 10.  

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1 hour ago, zoops said:

Appreciate the heads up.  What I'm hearing is that as Independent Contractors we won't be able to apply until April 10.  

Yes, sir - that’s accurate. It’s in the PDF he links too.

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3 hours ago, zoops said:

Appreciate the heads up.  What I'm hearing is that as Independent Contractors we won't be able to apply until April 10.  

And, as someone who has gone through it for a business, it's not really an easy application and you need an sba-approved banker.  Some banks have said they won't deal with those who aren't already customers.

 

But, yes, apply.

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On 4/3/2020 at 5:55 PM, noumpere said:

And, as someone who has gone through it for a business, it's not really an easy application and you need an sba-approved banker.  Some banks have said they won't deal with those who aren't already customers.

 

But, yes, apply.

Yes we definitely need to take advantage of this. We all deserve to be compensated. Our loss of income is real. 

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It's a loan.  It's forgivable (generally ) if you do not reduce your employment during the term of the loan.  It will become income if it's forgiven, (I assume; that's true for most loans).

 

Think of it as giving unemployment benefits directly to the workers as opposed to having them be fired and filing for it.

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Seems like a TON of hurdles for the few hundred I lost in volleyball.

Can anyone comment on what a "forgiven" loan will do to my credit report?

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1 hour ago, yawetag said:

Seems like a TON of hurdles for the few hundred I lost in volleyball.

Can anyone comment on what a "forgiven" loan will do to my credit report?

I think all of the "terms" are still up in the air.  However, I BELIEVE that 95% of these will be forgiven and I cannot imagine it would be allowed to effect your credit.  I do think it may be taxable as income, but again the details are kind of unclear right now.

However I need to comment on what you said... If you do this you should take your YEARLY income from umping/ref all of the sports you do and divide that by 12.  Thats your "lost income".  As an example:  My son is a college student and last year with baseball and football he earned $7,922.  I took that and divided it by 12 for a monthly loss of $660.16.  So his claim amount is 2.5 times that for a total of $1,650.41.  In the summer he can make that in two Thursday-Sunday tournaments, so his claim would be MUCH more if you only look at the next 2.5 months--which is when he makes the most money during baseball.  

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3 hours ago, aaluck said:

I think all of the "terms" are still up in the air.  However, I BELIEVE that 95% of these will be forgiven and I cannot imagine it would be allowed to effect your credit.  I do think it may be taxable as income, but again the details are kind of unclear right now.

However I need to comment on what you said... If you do this you should take your YEARLY income from umping/ref all of the sports you do and divide that by 12.  Thats your "lost income".  As an example:  My son is a college student and last year with baseball and football he earned $7,922.  I took that and divided it by 12 for a monthly loss of $660.16.  So his claim amount is 2.5 times that for a total of $1,650.41.  In the summer he can make that in two Thursday-Sunday tournaments, so his claim would be MUCH more if you only look at the next 2.5 months--which is when he makes the most money during baseball.  

Except:  If you have a "seasonla business" you are allowed to take the spring months and extend (the exact definition is on the form)

Except:  My business accountant now says that this forgiven loan is likely NOT to be taxable income to the business (how it affects ICs I didn't ask)

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5 hours ago, aaluck said:

If you do this you should take your YEARLY income from umping/ref all of the sports you do and divide that by 12.  Thats your "lost income".

That would come out to less. My club season is vastly more money than my fall season, which still has a chance to play.

Honestly, all the work would be for a few hundred dollars. I'll save the work and funds for those who are really having an effect of not being able to officiate or run their business. I'm friends with a travel writer - he's out thousands a month. There's a lot of others in the same situation - and I'd hate to find out my hobby funds went away from their pockets.

Thank you for being a proponent of it though - there are some who really need it.

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17 hours ago, yawetag said:

That would come out to less. My club season is vastly more money than my fall season, which still has a chance to play.

 

Yes you are probably right...and I may not be correct on that point as noumpere has pointed out.

17 hours ago, yawetag said:

I'm friends with a travel writer - he's out thousands a month. There's a lot of others in the same situation - and I'd hate to find out my hobby funds went away from their pockets.

I certainly understand that point as well.  

Its just and option for this that really need it, like my son that makes his money for college by umping all summer long.

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On 4/6/2020 at 1:50 PM, noumpere said:

Except:  If you have a "seasonla business" you are allowed to take the spring months and extend (the exact definition is on the form)

Except:  My business accountant now says that this forgiven loan is likely NOT to be taxable income to the business (how it affects ICs I didn't ask)

That is what I have been trying to find information on ... if I can claim the full summer season, then it is probably worth it for me to put the work into this.  If I have to divide that by 12, it probably isn't.  Can you provide any citation on seasonal?  Or can anybody provide better information on 1099 workers?  I have been searching, but everything keeps taking me back to the actual business information and clarification that the businesses cannot claim 1099 payouts.

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This is from the application, at least for businesses -- no idea if it applies exactly the same for ICs.  I will say that the definition of "payroll" changed at least twice between the time this came out and today.  Applications that were already in either had to be amended or withdrawn and resubmitted or use the original applicaiton.  Our business chose to leave our application alone rather than risk losing our spot in line.

 

For purposes of calculating “Average Monthly Payroll,” most Applicants will use the average monthly payroll for 2019, excluding costs over
$100,000 on an annualized basis for each employee. For seasonal businesses, the Applicant may elect to instead use average monthly payroll
for the time period between February 15, 2019 and June 30, 2019, excluding costs over $100,000 on an annualized basis for each employee.
For new businesses, average monthly payroll may be calculated using the time period from January 1, 2020 to February 29, 2020, excluding
costs over $100,000 on an annualized basis for each employee.

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The one thing that seems to be a sticking point at first reading is that requirement that 75% of any amount received be used for payroll. From the SBA Site:

Quote

The loan will be fully forgiven if the funds are used for payroll costs, interest on mortgages, rent, and utilities (due to likely high subscription, at least 75% of the forgiven amount must have been used for payroll). Loan payments will also be deferred for six months. No collateral or personal guarantees are required. Neither the government nor lenders will charge small businesses any fees.

Forgiveness is based on the employer maintaining or quickly rehiring employees and maintaining salary levels.  Forgiveness will be reduced if full-time headcount declines, or if salaries and wages decrease.

I'm curious how "payroll" will  be interpreted for an independent contractor. Umpires working as independent contractors don't have employees working for them, so the requirement that 75%  of any amount be used towards payroll could be a potential sticking point in received loan forgiveness. However, one link (archive) I found researching the issue suggests that net earnings from self-employment would qualify as payroll costs, but I'm not quite how one would demonstrate the money received replaces net earnings. Does it have to be spent on personal expenses? Can it simply be deposited in the bank and left alone? How the SBA would wants this documented appears to be the $64000 question.

I'm also curious how one would calculate the amount of lost income. If it goes solely by actual games cancelled, some umpires might not have received enough games this year to exceed the $1000 threshold before their season was canceled. If umpires can take what they made in January-March and annualize that amount, or use prior years' numbers to calculate what they'd lose this Spring, that might help those who otherwise might not meet the threshold.

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12 hours ago, StatsUmp said:

I'm curious how "payroll" will  be interpreted for an independent contractor. Umpires working as independent contractors don't have employees working for them, so the requirement that 75%  of any amount be used towards payroll could be a potential sticking point in received loan forgiveness.

You are fine on that.  We will be treated like an Uber driver etc. The confusion is basically that they did one "application" for every loan.  So some of the questions can be confusing as they are more geared toward a "business" as opposed to an IC.

For us 100% of the "loan" is for pay.  We do not have the expenses (lease or mortgage, etc), most of the stuff has no application to us. 

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Giving the like for the astute observation that a “one size fits all” application doesn’t work for very different scenarios.

So if we use the seasonal, do we still divide our total by 4.5 instead of 12?  Or does it completely change the whole formula?

I am going to call my bank this afternoon to see if I can get any answers.

 

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2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Giving the like for the astute observation that a “one size fits all” application doesn’t work for very different scenarios.

So if we use the seasonal, do we still divide our total by 4.5 instead of 12?  Or does it completely change the whole formula?

I am going to call my bank this afternoon to see if I can get any answers.

 

I would call and ask, thats what we did with his--spoke with the branch manager. We did his as stated above with the yearly/12.  Printed all of his monthly statements and turned them in with the application.  This will result in much less of a grant but this is the way the banker said he was told to do it.....

My son dropped his off just now at the bank (drive-thru) for the tomorrow opening.  

I'll let you guys know what, if anything, we hear from the banker that may be helpful. I'm sure there will be plenty of hangups so Ill try and keep everyone informed so we can TRY to eliminate all making the same mistakes.

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Anyone find a way to get these through?  Most banks are requiring you to be an existing small business account or they won't even take your application.

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That is a problem a lot of folks and businesses are running into.  In fact, my son switched banks yesterday to a local credit union, because Wells Fargo isn't helping its own customers.  They took his application since he switched to their bank.

I think Bank of America and some others have an online application form--not sure if you have to be a customer.

 

This is the SBA Link to lenders -- https://www.sba.gov/paycheckprotection/find

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I see where independent contractors (us) are eligible under the PPP, but I've also seen someone talk about filing for unemployment as well.  Do we/can we/should we file for both???

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So, given that I was deployed last year until the last month of the season, I guess I'm pretty much SOL. Not that I need it, but I'm worried about other people who lost out on a significant number of games last year and could use the help.

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Guys, unless you are already an SBA member with any bank, good luck filing a claim. 

I work for, and bank at, the largest bank in the US in terms of assets and I can't file a claim with them because I'm not an existing SBA account owner.

I've tried several other national and local banks with the same story.  They're helping their customers first, then maybe they'll get to my application.

For me, it's almost not worth the hassle.  I'm only doing it since my wife is a stay-at-home mother who babysits some on the side, so we've lost my 2nd income and hers too since parents are keeping their own kids during the shutdown.  All told, I'm out maybe $4K so it won't break me, but it would be nice to get some help with this.

On another note:  Why don't 16-18 year olds get included with the stimulus?  I got $500 for my 2 youngest children, but my HS senior doesn't get anything for herself and i don't get anything for her either.  That's dumb, because she is now out-of-work (job closed) and has zero income and I'm now paying her insurance and gas, etc.   Sometimes I wonder who's running this thing and what they're doing... I'm not being political, just wondering how this obvious oversight was missed.  How many 16-18 HS kids need funds right now as most HS jobs are shut-down (except maybe some in food/grocery business).

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2 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

On another note:  Why don't 16-18 year olds get included with the stimulus?  I got $500 for my 2 youngest children, but my HS senior doesn't get anything for herself and i don't get anything for her either.  That's dumb, because she is now out-of-work (job closed) and has zero income and I'm now paying her insurance and gas, etc.   Sometimes I wonder who's running this thing and what they're doing... I'm not being political, just wondering how this obvious oversight was missed.  How many 16-18 HS kids need funds right now as most HS jobs are shut-down (except maybe some in food/grocery business).

You should be getting something if you claimed her as a dependent.

It may be a glitch--if she's turned 18 since the beginning of the year, it may be that it's assumed she's no longer a dependent. Just an idea.

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7 minutes ago, Matt said:

You should be getting something if you claimed her as a dependent.

It may be a glitch--if she's turned 18 since the beginning of the year, it may be that it's assumed she's no longer a dependent. Just an idea.

No, we didn't get anything for her.  She's not 18 until September.  They wrote it that if someone turns 17 the year you filed (2019 taxes) then you don't get anything for that individual, even though she is a full dependent that cannot claim herself.

It makes sense to them in Washington DC, but no where else.

Frustrated Buzz Lightyear GIF

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