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After effects of COVID-19 on officiating

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23 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

I really don't expect a large influx of people to move to this job.   People are lazy and flipping burgers at McD's for almost $15 an hour is easier money - and more hours - versus our startup and licensing costs.   Plus, there are no rain-outs at McD's.

Call me crazy, but I don't really believe you'll see much difference.

I think a dad who just finally got back to his 9-5 after being laid off for 3 months isn't going to want to work at McDonald's in the evenings. He's going to want to do something that keeps him a bit more active to bring in some side money to get them back above water.

I'll add this, though: Since more and more organizations are going to Arbiter and checks (rather than cash), you won't find the influx. When I started in 2007, it was obvious many were taking cash-only gigs. As more organizations moved to Arbiter or checks, I found a lot of those guys showed up less.

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5 hours ago, eagle_12 said:

$58k seems to be total combined that the group is losing out on. 
 

But $35k for a D1 guy isn’t unimaginable. Lots of games worked, at highest level, making high pay  

$388 isn’t that much of a stretch for a D1 game. Single game midweeks run in the $300-700 range depending on team/region. Major D1 weekend runs $1500-2500 at least and add in some per diem and travel reimbursement. 
 

14 week D1 season, if you’re in demand and make yourself available 5 times (Tue, Wed, weekend) a week or add in a D2/3 midweek DH paying somewhere in the $450-600 range. 
 

Then add in conference tournament(s) that you probably work another 5+ games. Good enough regional, maybe 4 for games, and then super regional 2-3 games. 
 

90 games is a lot, but doable, if you do some D2/D3 that start a week or 2 before D1 started. 

$58,000.00. I thought I read that wrong. Makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

Not unimaginable, but unlikely. As I understand it (and I could be wrong), your expenses such as travel and hotels come out of your game fees. Also, taxes have to be figured in as well, which no one likes to include when saying how much money they "make." You're probably working some non-conference games, too, which don't pay as well. The $35 grand is definitely not all in your pocket, I think it's a little grandstanding with regards to the article.

Is it possible, yes, but I have yet to meet anybody that make this kind of money officiating baseball that is not in MLB. It's always, "I know a guy," or "I've heard some guys make that much."

As an older guy that has been self employed for almost 30 years, one thing I can tell you after all these years, is that many people lie about how much money they actually make.

JMHO and experience.

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In fairness, if someone asked me how much I made, I wouldn't ever say "After taxes? $3.50." You almost always go with the gross amount. And, even if that official did say, "I make $35k a year officiating sports. However, it's not really that much after travel, hotel, and meals," the reporter is still going to write down "$35k."

After all, this was written by someone who also wrote "set for his 42rd spring as an umpire."

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43 minutes ago, yawetag said:

In fairness, if someone asked me how much I made, I wouldn't ever say "After taxes? $3.50." You almost always go with the gross amount. And, even if that official did say, "I make $35k a year officiating sports. However, it's not really that much after travel, hotel, and meals," the reporter is still going to write down "$35k."

After all, this was written by someone who also wrote "set for his 42rd spring as an umpire."

Agreed, people that do answer that particular question usually go with gross pay, perfectly understandable and an obvious matter of practice. The point I was trying to make is that people lie about the gross amount for whatever reason, status, positioning, bragging, whatever. That person is probably not making $35,000.00 per college season. He just wants to make himself seem more important given the nature of the story-line.

And I never answer the question of how much I directly make unless I'm applying for a loan. The only person privy to my financial situation is my Accountant.

As a remodeling contractor, people often ask me how much jobs cost that I'm working on. I'll give them the figure, with stipulations like, most of the contract price goes to sub-contractors, materials, and employee costs. I don't want them to think I'm pocketing most of the money on say a $150,000.00 room addition/remodel, because I'm not.

Anyway, I know this is going off the rails and I don't want anyone to think I'm being argumentative. Just enjoying a good discussion. For some reason I seem to have extra time on my hands these days! :lol:

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On 3/26/2020 at 10:52 AM, Mudisfun said:

I was actually thinking along the same line... at least for our HS units. When I started in our group, we had +/-260 umpires, this season we are down to +/-170, maybe less who were actually working. If jobs are impacted, we may see a decent influx, at least until the economy comes back, at least for the HS units.

What I can see happening however is a decrease in game fees. Being in So. Cal, weather is normally not an issue, so we play year round. If there is a sudden influx of people willing to take games, I can see the travel teams and other leagues lowering game fees. You or I may not be willing to pull a 7-9 inning solo game for $45-$50 versus the normal $60-$90, but someone who is hungry will. And I doubt, even if there are more officials,  that teams will suddenly be willing to spring for two officials. Now you want to pay me $50 for a 7 inning game with a partner for a travel game? Sure, that I can see doing. $50 for that same game solo? Sorry, not interested. 

 

 

What's the word from schools about the season being banged?  In the Coachella Valley and Morongo Valley they are postponed until 30 April?  It's going to suck for kids trying to get seen in attempts to get a scholarship.

 

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10 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

 

Not unimaginable, but unlikely. As I understand it (and I could be wrong), your expenses such as travel and hotels come out of your game fees. Also, taxes have to be figured in as well, which no one likes to include when saying how much money they "make." You're probably working some non-conference games, too, which don't pay as well. The $35 grand is definitely not all in your pocket, I think it's a little grandstanding with regards to the article.

 

You’re right, $35k is probably pre-tax type deal. There are some leagues that for their weekend series will reimburse for various travel expenses. Amount and what all is covered varies by league, but not much out of pocket for weekends. Mid week games usually don’t provide a room but school will get you a deal at a partner hotel if needed. 

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11 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

$58,000.00. I thought I read that wrong. Makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

Not unimaginable, but unlikely. As I understand it (and I could be wrong), your expenses such as travel and hotels come out of your game fees.

Not for the major D1 conferences.

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13 hours ago, yawetag said:

As more organizations moved to Arbiter or checks, I found a lot of those guys showed up less.

W-2's and 1099's become rather... dissuasive to most folks doing this as an "active hobby", supportive, or supplemental income. There have been times in my past where umpiring represented about 30-40% of my income, and having to factor in 1099's – instead of cash – actually complicated my income tax filing.

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On 3/27/2020 at 12:35 AM, JonnyCat said:

It's $35,000.00 for 90 games? $388.00 per game? I don't think so.

And someone is making $58,000.00 per year umpiring if I read that correctly? No.

JC 

If you go back to my first post with the link to the video in Charlotte with Will Kunkel (is he related to former New York Yankees pitcher and the last player turned MLB Umpire Bill Kunkel), where the current pay rates are listed at about the 1:06-1:08 mark.

4 of the Major Conferences are listed with their per game fees. Big12 at $700, Big10 and SEC at $650, and ACC at $2200 for their 3 game weekend or $733 per game.

Over and above those per game fees mentioned and in addition to the game fees (from a Big12 article or CBUA website a couple years back) are a free airplane flight, a free room, and $45 per day  per diem for food and incidentals. Now that per diem was from a few years ago and may be higher now. Big 12 Non Conference games pay the same game fee as the weekend and a room if needed but No per diem. It did not mention whether a car mileage reimbursement was given or if that is just part of the regular game fee. I would tend to think the latter for non con.

Now if you want to eat 3 square $5 dollar meals from McDonald's every weekend, you can pocket an extra $90 dollars for 14 weeks or $1,260 for the year, but that must be added as income at tax time.

So, there were 14 weeks of regular play before the 15th week which is the Conference tournament in the Big12.

Someone working 5 Big12 games a week (70 games in 14 weeks), 3 Conference and 2 non-con can make $3,500 per week which comes out to $49,000 for the 14 week regular season. I think if the opportunity to work the Conference tournament would come up that probably that same $3,500 would be given. So, 49,000 for 14 regular season weeks plus $3,500 for the tournament week would be $52,500, not including any extra per diem reported as income, and this would be total gross income, not net income for the year. The above is only true if it can be done exactly as described above. Any deviations or having to work other conferences would probably lower the amount.

So, just go work D1 Basketball with Roger Ayers and get all the premier games at $3,500-4,000+ all inclusive, for the year and see that eye popping 300k plus 1099 at the end of the year, which does not include your real job that probably pays 6 figures also, and allows that amount of "time off". That would be a totally Major, out of this world life changing 1099, were i to just have that 1099 only with no other job. Also, Ayers works 90-105 games per year and I was only going with a 70 game total like baseball.

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17 hours ago, umpstu said:

What's the word from schools about the season being banged?  In the Coachella Valley and Morongo Valley they are postponed until 30 April?  It's going to suck for kids trying to get seen in attempts to get a scholarship.

 

At least you guys are getting updates. Washington has kids out of school until the 24th of April. That came out about 2 days after the $#!7 hit the fan. So our first games cant even be until the 27th. The only update WIAA has come out with.... that they wont go past end of May.

As for being seen. Yes being seen during HS might be an issue this year, obviously. But I'm sure you can still get seen during summer ball. Either that, or there is going to be a hell of a lot of walk-ons next year and kids going the JuCo route.

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2 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

At least you guys are getting updates. Washington has kids out of school until the 24th of April. That came out about 2 days after the $#!7 hit the fan. So our first games cant even be until the 27th. The only update WIAA has come out with.... that they wont go past end of May.

As for being seen. Yes being seen during HS might be an issue this year, obviously. But I'm sure you can still get seen during summer ball. Either that, or there is going to be a hell of a lot of walk-ons next year and kids going the JuCo route.

 

2 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

At least you guys are getting updates. Washington has kids out of school until the 24th of April. That came out about 2 days after the $#!7 hit the fan. So our first games cant even be until the 27th. The only update WIAA has come out with.... that they wont go past end of May.

As for being seen. Yes being seen during HS might be an issue this year, obviously. But I'm sure you can still get seen during summer ball. Either that, or there is going to be a hell of a lot of walk-ons next year and kids going the JuCo route.

The kids also have to compete with college kids who have been granted another year of eligibility by the NCAA.

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1 hour ago, umpstu said:

 

The kids also have to compete with college kids who have been granted another year of eligibility by the NCAA.

So, they are all going to be sitting at home with a 4 year degree in June after finishing the second half of the second semester of school work from home online.

So, next year do they go take 4 level 1 courses in the fall and 4 more in the spring, just so they can play another year. Or do they just get a special dispensation to just show up in January to get ready to play ball, and goof off with their degree in hand till January.

Or, are they not finishing out this semester and waiting till January next year to come back and finish their last four courses that they just ran out on after already starting, next year to play ball? That MLB chance dwindles for seniors, unless you are that lucky one like Piazza?

And all the other guys from juniors down to freshmen are going to use this extra year playbook???

Just asking how this will play out.

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5 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

JC 

If you go back to my first post with the link to the video in Charlotte with Will Kunkel (is he related to former New York Yankees pitcher and the last player turned MLB Umpire Bill Kunkel), where the current pay rates are listed at about the 1:06-1:08 mark.

4 of the Major Conferences are listed with their per game fees. Big12 at $700, Big10 and SEC at $650, and ACC at $2200 for their 3 game weekend or $733 per game.

Over and above those per game fees mentioned and in addition to the game fees (from a Big12 article or CBUA website a couple years back) are a free airplane flight, a free room, and $45 per day  per diem for food and incidentals. Now that per diem was from a few years ago and may be higher now. Big 12 Non Conference games pay the same game fee as the weekend and a room if needed but No per diem. It did not mention whether a car mileage reimbursement was given or if that is just part of the regular game fee. I would tend to think the latter for non con.

Now if you want to eat 3 square $5 dollar meals from McDonald's every weekend, you can pocket an extra $90 dollars for 14 weeks or $1,260 for the year, but that must be added as income at tax time.

So, there were 14 weeks of regular play before the 15th week which is the Conference tournament in the Big12.

Someone working 5 Big12 games a week (70 games in 14 weeks), 3 Conference and 2 non-con can make $3,500 per week which comes out to $49,000 for the 14 week regular season. I think if the opportunity to work the Conference tournament would come up that probably that same $3,500 would be given. So, 49,000 for 14 regular season weeks plus $3,500 for the tournament week would be $52,500, not including any extra per diem reported as income, and this would be total gross income, not net income for the year. The above is only true if it can be done exactly as described above. Any deviations or having to work other conferences would probably lower the amount.

So, just go work D1 Basketball with Roger Ayers and get all the premier games at $3,500-4,000+ all inclusive, for the year and see that eye popping 300k plus 1099 at the end of the year, which does not include your real job that probably pays 6 figures also, and allows that amount of "time off". That would be a totally Major, out of this world life changing 1099, were i to just have that 1099 only with no other job. Also, Ayers works 90-105 games per year and I was only going with a 70 game total like baseball.

I stand corrected. Thank you DD for clearing that up for me. Sounds like D1 college is the way to go officiating if you're not in the pros. I imagine D1 is a tough nut to crack to get all those plumb games. I'm sure people don't want to give those up.

Yeah, that would be one heck of a 1099! 

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On 3/28/2020 at 8:17 AM, BT_Blue said:

At least you guys are getting updates. Washington has kids out of school until the 24th of April. That came out about 2 days after the $#!7 hit the fan. So our first games cant even be until the 27th. The only update WIAA has come out with.... that they wont go past end of May.

As for being seen. Yes being seen during HS might be an issue this year, obviously. But I'm sure you can still get seen during summer ball. Either that, or there is going to be a hell of a lot of walk-ons next year and kids going the JuCo route.

We had one school cancel the rest of their season today.

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1 hour ago, umpstu said:

We had one school cancel the rest of their season today.

Get ready for more.

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Today would have been my game 1.  This year I blocked the first 2 weeks of potential scheduled games because they're typically rained out/canceled anyhow.  My first scheduled game now is 4/15.   Here in MI, we're waiting for the 'other shoe to drop' ....  we hope not, but ....most are expecting it.

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8 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

Today would have been my game 1.  This year I blocked the first 2 weeks of potential scheduled games because they're typically rained out/canceled anyhow.  My first scheduled game now is 4/15.   Here in MI, we're waiting for the 'other shoe to drop' ....  we hope not, but ....most are expecting it.

OHSAA hasn't made a call yet either, but they were originally back on 4/6 (games by 4/11).  With the update from Trump last night, no way that happens now.  I'd say HS is done for this year. 

OHSAA did go ahead and formally cancel winter sports last week. They originally intended to resume those as well (basketball, volleyball, swimming, etc.).

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4 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

Today would have been my game 1.  This year I blocked the first 2 weeks of potential scheduled games because they're typically rained out/canceled anyhow.  My first scheduled game now is 4/15.   Here in MI, we're waiting for the 'other shoe to drop' ....  we hope not, but ....most are expecting it.

With federal guidelines now saying April 30th, don't expect anything to start before May 1.

Personally, if I were given the option, I wouldn't step foot outside for anything non-essential in the next 2-4 weeks.

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No school verified through April 30 today in a staff meeting with my district. I don't know if it is the entire state of NJ or a local decision.

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On 3/28/2020 at 9:57 AM, dumbdumb said:

JC 

If you go back to my first post with the link to the video in Charlotte with Will Kunkel (is he related to former New York Yankees pitcher and the last player turned MLB Umpire Bill Kunkel), where the current pay rates are listed at about the 1:06-1:08 mark.

4 of the Major Conferences are listed with their per game fees. Big12 at $700, Big10 and SEC at $650, and ACC at $2200 for their 3 game weekend or $733 per game.

Over and above those per game fees mentioned and in addition to the game fees (from a Big12 article or CBUA website a couple years back) are a free airplane flight, a free room, and $45 per day  per diem for food and incidentals. Now that per diem was from a few years ago and may be higher now. Big 12 Non Conference games pay the same game fee as the weekend and a room if needed but No per diem. It did not mention whether a car mileage reimbursement was given or if that is just part of the regular game fee. I would tend to think the latter for non con.

Now if you want to eat 3 square $5 dollar meals from McDonald's every weekend, you can pocket an extra $90 dollars for 14 weeks or $1,260 for the year, but that must be added as income at tax time.

So, there were 14 weeks of regular play before the 15th week which is the Conference tournament in the Big12.

Someone working 5 Big12 games a week (70 games in 14 weeks), 3 Conference and 2 non-con can make $3,500 per week which comes out to $49,000 for the 14 week regular season. I think if the opportunity to work the Conference tournament would come up that probably that same $3,500 would be given. So, 49,000 for 14 regular season weeks plus $3,500 for the tournament week would be $52,500, not including any extra per diem reported as income, and this would be total gross income, not net income for the year. The above is only true if it can be done exactly as described above. Any deviations or having to work other conferences would probably lower the amount.

So, just go work D1 Basketball with Roger Ayers and get all the premier games at $3,500-4,000+ all inclusive, for the year and see that eye popping 300k plus 1099 at the end of the year, which does not include your real job that probably pays 6 figures also, and allows that amount of "time off". That would be a totally Major, out of this world life changing 1099, were i to just have that 1099 only with no other job. Also, Ayers works 90-105 games per year and I was only going with a 70 game total like baseball.

No one in the country is working 5 Big 12 games a week.
 

$40-$45,000 is possible for the top 1% (guys who’ve been to Omaha). Otherwise, $35,000 is pretty reasonable for a full time D1 Umpire (not including post-season). 

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The governor of AZ just cancelled school for the rest of the year. High School baseball in   AZ  is cancelled 

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55 minutes ago, mw94 said:

The governor of AZ just cancelled school for the rest of the year. High School baseball in   AZ  is cancelled 

Welcome to the club. :(

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