Old mechanics

[Richvee]

So Im watching a Yankee game from ‘79 on YES and Im amazed at all the movements by all the umpires on plays and pitches. U1 actually taking most plays on the run running from A to foul territory behind the bag no matter where the throw is coming from. U2 turning with the throw to 2B then literally running towards the bag as the tag is being applied. Strike calls being made almost before the  ball is in the glove. When did we figure out if slow down, and we’re not moving we can get a better look at the play? 

[Kevin_K]

When every game was on video and those who "got screwed" started sending segments to league offices and the Joe Torrre's of the day said, "WTF are we doing?"

[mw94]

But everything that is old can be new again! During spring training this year. The U2 was working on the outside for force plays & steals of 2nd . Just like the old AL mechanic

[umpstu]

On 3/13/2020 at 5:35 PM, Richvee said:

So Im watching a Yankee game from ‘79 on YES and Im amazed at all the movements by all the umpires on plays and pitches. U1 actually taking most plays on the run running from A to foul territory behind the bag no matter where the throw is coming from. U2 turning with the throw to 2B then literally running towards the bag as the tag is being applied. Strike calls being made almost before the  ball is in the glove. When did we figure out if slow down, and we’re not moving we can get a better look at the play? 

I'm guessing sometime after 1979.

[Richvee]

21 minutes ago, mw94 said:

But everything that is old can be new again! During spring training this year. The U2 was working on the outside for force plays & steals of 2nd . Just like the old AL mechanic

True. But in ‘79 they we’re running from outside to the inside and actually making the call on the run. Now they start outside to get in the wedge for the steal of second. 

[Richvee]

Watching U1 run from A to foul territory to call the play at 1b was actually comical   

[umpstu]

5 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Watching U1 run from A to foul territory to call the play at 1b was actually comical   

I think Denkinger was on the move in foul territory

 

[kylejt]

On 3/15/2020 at 8:27 PM, mw94 said:

But everything that is old can be new again! During spring training this year. The U2 was working on the outside for force plays & steals of 2nd . Just like the old AL mechanic

That just makes sense, though, as everything is right in front of you. I've never understood why you'd be inside when working 4 man. Maybe just to see balks easier. Or, heading to first or third if U1/U3 goes out. Not much else. 

 

[MadMax]

On 3/17/2020 at 11:09 AM, kylejt said:

Or, heading to first or third if U1/U3 goes out. Not much else.

Sure, C-beyond works for 4-man, and is an effective IP to be at. The MLB guys have experimented and slowly implemented it over the past, what, 2-3 years now?

The problem isn't the use of it by MLB guys, and/or in 4-man. The problem is the use of it, and the imitation of it by less-experienced umpires who don't understand the purposes, context, and environment within which they themselves are working. Especially true when these less-than-MLB umpires (I'll concede, the MiLB guys working 4-man might or should be exempt) are working 3-man and 2-man! In 2-man, with R1 (or R1+R3), the BU shall/should be in B! So, he's seeing that steal of 2B, or the FP@2B from the inside anyway. Repeatedly. Same goes for 3-man, that when there is R1, U3's IP is B-deep, while with R2 or R2+R3 (and less than 2 outs), U1 is in B-deep. Why would we ever introduce C-beyond to this?

One of my 3-man crewmembers experimented with C-beyond as U3 for a game. While we didn't have any blown calls, or mangled rotations, he was advised by our supervisor not to use it until we went to 4-man / 6-man crews for the playoffs. Once we were merged with another crew for 6-man playoffs, he was placed at U2 for all three games (by our supervisor) and encouraged with, "use whichever IP you wish", and that's what he did... use C-beyond each and every time the situation called for it.

Now, with setting up in C-beyond requires discipline. Are you technically outside (already) or are you just in a "different" spot inside? Say we're in 4-man, and we have a R1, with a fly ball to Left... Is U2 already out? Does that mean U3 has to come in? Who's taking R1 to 2B if it isn't caught? Is U2 coming in, and leaving the catch/no-catch to U3? What if it drops, and now we have a throw/play made to 2B for a Force out? What if it takes F7 to the wall, where he makes the catch, but now R1 prepares and makes an attempt to tag-and-advance?

That's just one example. It's more effective to instruct and entrench BU's, and get them in the practiced, experienced habit of reading plays from B-deep, or at least inside than to experiment with C-beyond. Leave C-beyond to guys who are routinely in a 4+-man environment and working with a crew who communicates together or knows when/how each other are going to react.

[kylejt]

I agree with "All of the Above" 

 

Everyone has to be on board for this to work on the big diamond.