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sthomas13100

Catcher Interference on Squeeze

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Looking for some help on NFHS rule regarding Cather interference on R3 stealing or squeeze play.

OBR 6.01 g

(g)  Interference With Squeeze Play or Steal of Home

If, with a runner on third base and trying to score by means of a squeeze play or a steal, the catcher or any other fielder steps on, or in front of home base without possession of the ball, or touches the batter or his bat, the pitcher shall be charged with a balk, the batter shall be awarded first base on the interference and the ball is dead.

I am having difficulty finding NFHS ruling regarding this same scenario, seems silent on this same situation.

Any help would be appreciated!

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Form an old book:

 

8-3-1 ART. 1 . . . Each runner other than the batter-runner (who is governed by 8-1-2) is awarded one base when: a. there is a balk (5-1-1a, 6-2-4) or a pitch strikes a runner (6-1-4); b. he is forced from the base he occupies by a following runner who must advance because a batter receives a fourth ball, or is hit by a pitched ball, or hits a fair ball which becomes dead (5-1-1f, g); c. he is attempting to steal or he is forced from the base he occupies by a batter-runner or runner who must advance because the catcher or any fielder obstructs the batter, such as stepping on or across home or pushing the batter to reach the pitch or touching the bat (8-1-1e). Instances may occur when the infraction may be ignored (8-1-1e).

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This is from (or form a new book) a new book--

2020 NFHS rule 8 SECTION 1 WHEN BATTER BECOMES A RUNNER

ART. 1 . . . A batter becomes a runner with the right to attempt to score by advancing to first, second, third and home bases in the listed order when:

e. the catcher or any other defensive player obstructs him. The coach or captain of the team at bat, after being informed by the umpire-in-chief of the obstruction, shall indicate whether or not he elects to decline the obstruction penalty and accept the resulting play. Such election shall be made before the next pitch (legal or illegal), before the award of an intentional base on balls, or before the infielders leave the diamond. Obstruction of the batter is ignored if the batter- runner reaches first and all other runners advance at least one base.

1. Any runner attempting to advance (i.e., steal or squeeze) on a catcher’s obstruction of the batter shall be awarded the base he is attempting. If a runner is not attempting to advance on the catcher’s obstruction, he shall not be entitled to the next base, if not forced to advance because of the batter being awarded first base. If obstruction is enforced, all other runners on the play will return to base occupied at time of the pitch. The batter is awarded first base, if he did not reach base.

Also see 2020 NFHS case book plays 8.1.1 Situation L and 8.3.1 Situation B.

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So I read 8-1-1e 1,2:  So you score the run at home if the BR is obstructed by the catcher, got it.  Do you also enforce the "catchers balk"? and award BR 1st base?  Like the OBR ruling.

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The situation I was thinking about, squeeze play is on, Batter squares to bunt, catcher comes up and runs through the bat and catches the pitch to tag R3 out.  The way I read OBR, I'm enforcing catcher interference and awarding R3 home and sending BR to 1st base on the catchers balk.

But it looks like R3 is getting home, and BR is staying with his at bat.  But I might not be reading FED rule correctly.

I might be complicating this too much!

 

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37 minutes ago, sthomas13100 said:

The situation I was thinking about, squeeze play is on, Batter squares to bunt, catcher comes up and runs through the bat and catches the pitch to tag R3 out.  The way I read OBR, I'm enforcing catcher interference and awarding R3 home and sending BR to 1st base on the catchers balk.

But it looks like R3 is getting home, and BR is staying with his at bat.  But I might not be reading FED rule correctly.

I might be complicating this too much!

There is no "catcher's balk" in FED.

grayhalk (IIRC) calls the catcher OBS rule the "stupid R2" rule. Perhaps you can figure out why.

The penalty for catcher OBS is:

  1. the ball is delayed dead, as on all OBS, and then
  2. the batter is awarded 1B, and
  3. any runners forced to advance by the batter's award get 1 base, and
  4. any runners stealing on the pitch get 1 base.

Because the ball is delayed dead, there will often be a play, as in your case above. At the end of playing action, the coach of the offense will have a choice between the penalty for OBS and the play. Often, the play will be better than the penalty (esp. when the batter manages to put the ball in play). In such cases, the OBS is ignored.

In your play, the choice would be easy: take the penalty, score R3, and award the batter 1B. (The result of the play would be R3 out and the batter still at bat; I wouldn't even bother presenting the choice in that case.)

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Next, mechanics:

For this play, when F2 hinders the batter, we'd point and say, "That's obstruction!" leaving the ball live.

Once F2 tags R3 (and assuming there are no other runners), call the out, and kill it. Calling the out is important because (a) it happened, and (b) it's part of the "play" option of "penalty or play."

Where it's totally obvious what the only reasonable choice is, just enforce it (penalty or play). If you wish, a quick "you want the penalty/play, right?" to the dugout will do. Where it's not totally obvious, present the options as briefly as possible (for instance—not any play mentioned in this thread—something like, "Coach, you can have a run scored and R1 with 2 outs, or bases loaded with one out." For extra credit: figure out what play I have in mind that would generate these options!) Do NOT rehearse the entire OBS rule or the thinking you did to arrive at these options!

Enforce the selected option, play on.

BTW, football officials (referees) have to be good at boiling down options (penalty or play: "you want them to have 3rd and 17 or 4th and 3?"). It's a valuable skill that baseball umpires seldom practice.

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2 hours ago, sthomas13100 said:

Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated.

Don’t call it a catcher’s balk in OBR. It’s a balk charged to the pitcher. He failed to deliver a pitch:) 

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13 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Don’t call it a catcher’s balk in OBR. It’s a balk charged to the pitcher. He failed to deliver a pitch:) 

I agree with the advice: only F1 can be charged with a balk.

I disagree with the reason. In the OP there was a "ball delivered to the batter by the pitcher." (Maybe I'm missing the force of your smilie here.)

The balk is charged to F1, even though he did not commit a balk-able infraction, because only F1 can be charged with a balk.

It's charged for the sake of the penalty, specifically to advance non-stealing runners (see "stupid R2" above). We might wonder why the rules-makers didn't simply add the award to the CI penalty. I'd guess that the penalty "evolved" over time, and they thought it was easier just to add a "balk charged to the pitcher" rather than change the penalty. 

Maybe someone with JEA can read up on it...

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1 hour ago, maven said:

I agree with the advice: only F1 can be charged with a balk...

The balk is charged to F1.

As an aside to everyone else... This is why there is No Such Thing as a "Fielder's Balk" or "First Baseman's Balk" (for such a thing as taking IP in foul territory when holding R1 on).

Similarly, the infamous / notorious video clip that circulate(s)/(d) on YouTube of a catcher – F2 – throwing to 3B on an aborted steal attempt by R2. Because 3B was unoccupied, PU mistakenly called Time and penalized a Balk. Not only is this a gross misapplication of the Rules, but the purported justification of it – a Balk – is impossible, because only the F1 can be charged with a Balk.

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The catcher’s interference rule entered the rule book in 1899 as rule 46 section 6--

Rule 46—WHEN THE BATSMAN BECOMES A BASE-RUNNER

The Batsman becomes a Base-Runner:

Sec. 6. If, while he be a batsman, the catcher interferes with him, preventing him from striking the ball.

The rule for a catcher’s interference on a squeeze play or steal of home entered the rule book in 1920 as rule 56 section 21. Just for comparison the current 2019 rule follows--

Rule 56

Sec. 21. In event a base-runner is trying to score from third base on a pitched ball or the “squeeze” play, a “balk” and also an “interference” should be called if the catcher runs out in front of the plate to catch the ball: and the runner shall be allowed to score and the batsman be entitled to first base. The same penalties must be imposed in case the catcher pushes the batsman out of the way, or tips his bat.

2019 OBR rule 6.01(g)

Interference With Squeeze Play or Steal of Home

If, with a runner on third base and trying to score by means of a squeeze play or a steal, the catcher or any other fielder steps on, or in front of home base without possession of the ball, or touches the batter or his bat, the pitcher shall be charged with a balk, the batter shall be awarded first base on the interference and the ball is dead.

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On 2/13/2020 at 12:40 PM, Senor Azul said:

This is from (or form a new book) a new book--

2020 NFHS rule 8 SECTION 1 WHEN BATTER BECOMES A RUNNER

ART. 1 . . . A batter becomes a runner with the right to attempt to score by advancing to first, second, third and home bases in the listed order when:

e. the catcher or any other defensive player obstructs him. The coach or captain of the team at bat, after being informed by the umpire-in-chief of the obstruction, shall indicate whether or not he elects to decline the obstruction penalty and accept the resulting play. Such election shall be made before the next pitch (legal or illegal), before the award of an intentional base on balls, or before the infielders leave the diamond. Obstruction of the batter is ignored if the batter- runner reaches first and all other runners advance at least one base.

1. Any runner attempting to advance (i.e., steal or squeeze) on a catcher’s obstruction of the batter shall be awarded the base he is attempting. If a runner is not attempting to advance on the catcher’s obstruction, he shall not be entitled to the next base, if not forced to advance because of the batter being awarded first base. If obstruction is enforced, all other runners on the play will return to base occupied at time of the pitch. The batter is awarded first base, if he did not reach base.

Also see 2020 NFHS case book plays 8.1.1 Situation L and 8.3.1 Situation B.

The difference in FED is with r3 stealing and CI, there’s no balk, but any stealing or forced runner gets to advance. So the only time all runners don’t advance is r2/r3 , r3 stealing home and r2 doesn’t move. Hence, this FRD rule is AKA “ the dumb R2 rule”.  

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