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BigVic69

9.01d Little League 2020 rule change

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the following is what exists in the rulebook for 9.01(d)

(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager, or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.

NOTE: The local league has the option to adopt this rule application. The stealing and relaying of signs to alert the batter of pitch selection and/or location is unsportsmanlike behavior. If, in the judgment of the umpire, this behavior is occurring, those responsible including any player(s), coach(es), and/or manager shall be ejected from the game.

this was added for 2020:

the team manager and those responsible including any player(s) and/or coaches shall be warned after the first offense.  Those responsible including any player(s), coach(es), and/or manager shall be ejected from the game for a team's subsequent offense.

Does the 2020 addition pertain to any unsportsmanlike conduct?

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Sounds like it just applies to stealing signs...

Even if it did apply to any unsportsmanlike conduct, it certainly wouldn't prevent the umpire from immediately ejecting someone without giving a warning.

 

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1 hour ago, BigVic69 said:

the following is what exists in the rulebook for 9.01(d)

(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager, or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.

NOTE: The local league has the option to adopt this rule application. The stealing and relaying of signs to alert the batter of pitch selection and/or location is unsportsmanlike behavior. If, in the judgment of the umpire, this behavior is occurring, those responsible including any player(s), coach(es), and/or manager shall be ejected from the game.

this was added for 2020:

the team manager and those responsible including any player(s) and/or coaches shall be warned after the first offense.  Those responsible including any player(s), coach(es), and/or manager shall be ejected from the game for a team's subsequent offense.

Does the 2020 addition pertain to any unsportsmanlike conduct?

In context, this is the entirety of the language including the update - when viewed in full,  it's quite apparent it applies to the sign stealing.  The synopsis on Little League's website about the rule change also explicitly states it is about sign stealing.

 

NOTE: The local league has the option to adopt this rule application. The stealing and relaying of signs to alert the batter of pitch selection and/or location is unsportsmanlike behavior. If, in the judgment of the umpire this behavior is occurring, the team manager and those responsible including any player(s) and/or coach(es) shall be warned after the first offense. Those responsible including any player(s), coach(es), and/or manager shall be ejected from the game for a team’s subsequent offense.

 

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I missed the comma at the end of the Note: and I further wondered why the new paragraph started without a capital letter.21f7cdb0c7f09466f1d06f86c47d70c7.jpg

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Great. We're officially giving them permission to get away with it until they get caught. Fantastic idea.

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There was a televised game last year (I think it was a WS game but it might have been a Regional game) where a player on second was signalling the batter.  The plate ump called Time and warned the runner and manager.  Under the rule as written there should have been an ejection, but there wasn't. 

As I recall there were several posts on the umpire not following the rule.  This rule change aligns with the actions of the umpire.

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2 hours ago, Lou B said:

There was a televised game last year (I think it was a WS game but it might have been a Regional game) where a player on second was signalling the batter.  The plate ump called Time and warned the runner and manager.  Under the rule as written there should have been an ejection, but there wasn't. 

As I recall there were several posts on the umpire not following the rule.  This rule change aligns with the actions of the umpire.

And it's still a stupid rule.

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28 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

And it's still a stupid rule.

Then Why is MLB going after Cora and the red Sox now?

 

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:sarcasm:  maybe because Little League won't fine a team ......ten's of or hundred's of thousands of dollar$, thereby generating more revenue for the corporate office?

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10 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Then Why is MLB going after Cora and the red Sox now?

 

Because it was done from off the field.  

If you aren't allowed to steal signs then why have signs? Just yell out the play and forbid the other team  acting on what they heard.

 

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4 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Then Why is MLB going after Cora and the red Sox now?

 

MLB is not, never has, and never will go after a player on second base who relays a pitch or pitch location to a batter.  Nor will they go after a batter who looks at the catcher's signs, or a fielder who picks up on when the third base coach has called for a bunt or steal.    LL enforcing that is indeed stupid.

When a Little League team manages to do what the Astros and Red Sox accomplished with cameras, dugout televisions, and garbage cans, then the unsportsmanlike rule would be relevant.

In MLB, and most levels of baseball, sign stealing among the players on the field and benches has always been allowed...sign stealing using some kind of external technology, whether it binoculars or a TV,  has always been frowned upon.

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8 hours ago, Lou B said:

There was a televised game last year (I think it was a WS game but it might have been a Regional game) where a player on second was signalling the batter.  The plate ump called Time and warned the runner and manager.  Under the rule as written there should have been an ejection, but there wasn't. 

As I recall there were several posts on the umpire not following the rule.  This rule change aligns with the actions of the umpire.

Given this new rule, perhaps this umpire knew a little more about what LLI wanted done in such a situation than a bunch of armchair umpires in a message board. Just sayin’ ....

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20 hours ago, Richvee said:

Given this new rule, perhaps this umpire knew a little more about what LLI wanted done in such a situation than a bunch of armchair umpires in a message board. Just sayin’ ....

What pissed me off about the whole thing and I was there when it happened.

 

I learned later that the same teams had played earlier in the week with NH winning and then during that game the RI team was reported to the umpire of that game for doing the same thing. ( this is what I was told by coaching staff from Gtown later during Fall ball )   So my point is with History of the issue earlier in the Tourny why was there not something said before the game to the coaches and or told to the PU or 2nd base U and also "how to handle it"

 

The thing that tipped me up about it then is stupid or not the rule is THE RULE and it was put in there specifically for the incident that happened. Why was it not enforced as such.  But after talking to Doc and some other folks as well as a friend of the PU who gave me some other info .. Here is what I say it is what it is , it happened and its over. I do not agree with it but hey I umped those kids most of my season this year and I hated a rule broken not being doled out as the book says it should have been so was I a fan then yeah I was..

 

Now as an Ump I do not like how the rule is written now.  It leaves out some possibilities to occur that could then be judged as unsportsmanlike causing more crap later. SO 

 

My suggestion would be to amend the rule because it is part of the Tourney section to read

 

"For the duration of the tournament" the team shall be warned after the first offense.  Those responsible including any player(s), coach(es), and/or manager shall be ejected from the game for a team's subsequent offense.  

 

This way a team only gets one warning while in the tournament and it keeps it so If one team gets nabbed on it they cannot have another kid go out there in the next game and do it  so on and so forth.  I say this because its a Tournament rule and not for use as a season rule unless the local leagues want to adopt it.  

 

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On 1/9/2020 at 2:14 PM, beerguy55 said:

In MLB, and most levels of baseball, sign stealing among the players on the field and benches has always been allowed...sign stealing using some kind of external technology, whether it binoculars or a TV,  has always been frowned upon.

Stealing signs from fair territory is part of the game. 

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Here's my take: 

If this is so awful, as to require the removal of all the offenders and the manager, why is this rule optional for the local league in the regular season? 

This is only a made for TV rule, because some announcer called it cheating on an ESPN broadcast, and someone is a sportcoat in Williamsport lost their mind. No other reason, folks. 

Oh, I guess it's okay to steal and relay the bunt sign, right? 

BTW, the warning only pertains to this lame sign stealing rule (please make them stop, Mr. Coach). You can still dump a player for calling you blind without a warning. 

 

Idiots. 

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I think the thing that galls me the most is that the rule is optional at the local level.

Look, either it's UC or it's not. You can't have a rule that calls for the death penalty (multiple ejections) for just games on your precious TV show, but it's okay to do in April. Someone find me the logic in that.

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4 minutes ago, kylejt said:

I think the thing that galls me the most is that the rule is optional at the local level.

Look, either it's UC or it's not. You can't have a rule that calls for the death penalty (multiple ejections) for just games on your precious TV show, but it's okay to do in April. Someone find me the logic in that.

/agree with that

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MLB just hammered the Astros for their sign stealing in the 2017 WS.

Fines and suspensions have lead to major resignations.

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58 minutes ago, Lou B said:

MLB just hammered the Astros for their sign stealing in the 2017 WS.

Fines and suspensions have lead to major resignations.

Again, for using external technology...not for on field sign stealing/decoding.

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