Game Changer scorer needs to sit where?

[BigVic69]

The scorekeeper has sat in neutral territory, ie right behind home plate (or press box, etc.), when keeping the book and pitch count.

With the advent, and wide usage of game changer, I am hearing folks say they like it because "we can sit anywhere".

I do not see this covered in the little league rule book.

Did I miss something.

Thanks fellows,

Big Vic

[beerguy55]

25 minutes ago, BigVic69 said:

The scorekeeper has sat in neutral territory, ie right behind home plate (or press box, etc.), when keeping the book and pitch count.

With the advent, and wide usage of game changer, I am hearing folks say they like it because "we can sit anywhere".

I do not see this covered in the little league rule book.

Did I miss something.

Thanks fellows,

Big Vic

Well, it's more a commentary on the usage of the app, not where an official scorekeeper is supposed to sit.

 

When you're using a phone or tablet you can keep, or follow, the score anywhere...and if you're keeping score for the team (not as an official of the game), since you don't have a big score book in your lap you can do it anywhere in the bleachers.

[isired]

Well, it's more a commentary on the usage of the app, not where an official scorekeeper is supposed to sit.
 
When you're using a phone or tablet you can keep, or follow, the score anywhere...and if you're keeping score for the team (not as an official of the game), since you don't have a big score book in your lap you can do it anywhere in the bleachers.

I think it's more the 'follow' part - that the coach doesnt need to come to you to check score/pitch count - they just look at their phone before confirming the score with the plate ump or deciding to get a pitcher throwing. With a book they've got to be able to get to you and converse.

[Lou B]

As an Umpire I couldn't care less about what the Game Changer app says.

The game has an official scorer keeping the book and pitch count (might be a different person).  If there is a question about the score, pitch count, whatever, I'm going to the scorer's shed/table, not to someone in the stands using an app.

 

As a grandparent, I love to follow my grandkids' games on Game Changer since I can't get to many of them, especially the ones in another state!

[BigVic69]

That is my point, more little leagues are moving to not having a paper "book" but instead just using Game Changer due to stats, etc.
I could not find a rule in the LL book as to where a scorekeeper should sit, and if one does not exist...then they can do (sit) where they want.


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[Aging_Arbiter]

If you're referring just to little league, if they want a book kept for their team, it must be in the dugout.  I've even seen a talented coach keep it in the 1B coaches box.  The premise being that  Players & Coaches are not to mingle with spectators (that, you'll find in the rule book).  Now break it down, .... if you can't talk to anyone OUTSIDE of the dugout, where do they need to be in order for you to check your subs, lineup changes, batting order, etc?

[BLarson]

I do mostly 9-14 USSSA all levels of baseball...I don't think anyone uses a paper book anymore.

A couple things that always bother me doing it electronically...having a score discrepency and a batting out of order question...it takes more time to go through the app than it does a book.

On the plus side, on the team I volunteer coach for, it's nice to be able to access stats immediately versus having to have someone transcript paper to a spreadsheet or some other app.

[Guest LouB]

The official scorer sits in the scorers shed whether he/she is keeping a book or using game changer or something else.

As an Umpire, if there's a question on score, outs, batting order, subs, whatever, I'm going to the scorers shed I'm not going to try to hunt someone down in the stands or in one of the dugouts.

[isired]

The official scorer sits in the scorers shed whether he/she is keeping a book or using game changer or something else.
As an Umpire, if there's a question on score, outs, batting order, subs, whatever, I'm going to the scorers shed I'm not going to try to hunt someone down in the stands or in one of the dugouts.

No, nobody would expect the umpire to do that. And in tournaments where there is an official impartial scorer, they're usually right behind home plate, or nearby. In a non-tournament situation,where the closest thing to an official score is each team's book or gamechanger, if the umpire is looking for score confirmation they generally go to each manager. Sometimes as the game progresses and the umpire can clearly see who is keeping score for each team, they'll just ask the scorekeepers directly.

I assumed the OP was talking about the latter, with no tournament-provided official scorer.

I keep the GC sometimes for my sons 16u team, and I have to say that I don't know about roaming wherever. I want to be able to see foul line to foul line for every play, so I'm likely to be behind or near behind home plate.

[Biscuit]

4 hours ago, isired said:

No, nobody would expect the umpire to do that. And in tournaments where there is an official impartial scorer, they're usually right behind home plate, or nearby. In a non-tournament situation,where the closest thing to an official score is each team's book or gamechanger, if the umpire is looking for score confirmation they generally go to each manager. Sometimes as the game progresses and the umpire can clearly see who is keeping score for each team, they'll just ask the scorekeepers directly.

I assumed the OP was talking about the latter, with no tournament-provided official scorer.

I keep the GC sometimes for my sons 16u team, and I have to say that I don't know about roaming wherever. I want to be able to see foul line to foul line for every play, so I'm likely to be behind or near behind home plate.

In my area, there's never a scorer provided. It's always the book (actually, it's almost always GC, almost never a book) of each team, with the home book being official if a dispute arises. Would be great if they'd provide one, but no such luck.

[isired]

In my area, there's never a scorer provided. It's always the book (actually, it's almost always GC, almost never a book) of each team, with the home book being official if a dispute arises. Would be great if they'd provide one, but no such luck.

Yeah to be clear its really only the bigger multi-state tournaments and 14u and older that have had scorers. Perfect Game uses DiamondKast (their own system?) and others mostly use GC.

[Aging_Arbiter]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 3:07 PM, BLarson said:

On the plus side, on the team I volunteer coach for, it's nice to be able to access stats immediately versus having to have someone transcript paper to a spreadsheet or some other app.

Now I'm not a coach, never claimed to be, never wanted to be.  So I ask this question not only from sarcasm, but a bit of curiosity sprinkled in.  Why is the world, would you NEED access to stats immediately for a batting out of order scenario? 

IMHO, if you can't provide a timely answer when the umpire asks for both scorekeepers (when trying to determine if BOO exists), I think that a book would be warranted.  Now, that could just be my outdated technology opinion, but I still try to employ game management techniques.  Some dad who just downloaded the app, that can't answer my question, is not conducive to this situation.

Yes, this could be a one and only situation.  I get that.  Shoot, before you know it, they'll have us calling an electronically generated strike zone.

[isired]

I'm confused. I don't see any reason that it would be harder that looking at a book to determine BOO - you just click on the team in questions lineup and you've got the lineup.

And confirming runs/scores at the end of each half inning is even easier - GC gives you a summary of the half inning as soon as you record the last out.

I used a book for a long time, used the book to wave runners home whole coaching 3B, finally decided to learn gamechanger in the Spring of 2017 and the only issue I see with it is on really hot days with no shade I sometimes have to get creative to keep my device from overheating.

[Aging_Arbiter]

as mentioned, my technological skills are quite dated.  I was going off of what @BLarson said that:

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 3:07 PM, BLarson said:

having a score discrepency and a batting out of order question...it takes more time to go through the app than it does a book.

 

[isired]

as mentioned, my technological skills are quite dated.  I was going off of what [mention=4915]BLarson[/mention] said that:
 

Yeah I didnt understand that. But I know there are different versions for different devices and even screen sizes. I've seen guys using it on a small screen and I think it might take more clicks to get where you want to go. I generally use an ipad, where you see the lineup and the fielders on the same screen so you have no clicks to see the batting order unless you were viewing something else.

[beerguy55]

4 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

Now I'm not a coach, never claimed to be, never wanted to be.  So I ask this question not only from sarcasm, but a bit of curiosity sprinkled in.  Why is the world, would you NEED access to stats immediately for a batting out of order scenario? 

IMHO, if you can't provide a timely answer when the umpire asks for both scorekeepers (when trying to determine if BOO exists), I think that a book would be warranted.  Now, that could just be my outdated technology opinion, but I still try to employ game management techniques.  Some dad who just downloaded the app, that can't answer my question, is not conducive to this situation.

Yes, this could be a one and only situation.  I get that.  Shoot, before you know it, they'll have us calling an electronically generated strike zone.

As a coach, I never had a problem using Game Changer to quickly resolve any in game issues, from scores to outs to MYTAB.

Having said that, we typically had a book anyway, for a number of reasons:

- most leagues or tourneys want a paper copy submitted, so we just did paper as a habit, whether we needed it or not

- we always assigned a bench player to be a scorekeeper, regardless of official and other scorekeepers outside the dugout, to keep them engaged, and as a learning tool

- players weren't permitted (by me) to have their phones on the bench...and I typically didn't want my, or the team, iPad on the bench as it would probably get destroyed - scoring via GameChanger was done by a parent in the stands

- players, even into their late teens, like to see a full column of filled in diamonds on a score sheet

 

For me, Game Changer is about long-term stats, and a convenient tool for parents/family to view the game when they can't physically be present (and for parents to know the score without constantly bugging the scorekeeper).

At that point, I don't care if you're using paper or tech, if you're not adept at using the tool to quickly resolve an in game dispute/question you shouldn't be the score keeper.   And I've seen a lot of score keepers that can't manage paper either. If you're the score keeper, use whatever tool is most efficient (and within the rules)

[Mister B]

With our 13u team last year, I tried getting a player to keep a paper book, but it was too difficult to teach them as well as coach. It's a great teaching tool though. When I'm coaching, I keep a small notebook with batting order and PA results. 

When keeping score, I like to be behind the plate, too many umpires here mumble and too many point for a strike and then point to show where the ball missed. Had a pitcher working on his curve and walking kids, I showed him the notebook and explained that the next 3 batters were out swinging the last at bat. I told him to use the fastball and get to a 2 strike count, then try a curve. Just, don't walk guys who can't hit. 

[BLarson]

On 11/18/2019 at 7:36 AM, Aging_Arbiter said:

Now I'm not a coach, never claimed to be, never wanted to be.  So I ask this question not only from sarcasm, but a bit of curiosity sprinkled in.  Why is the world, would you NEED access to stats immediately for a batting out of order scenario? 

 

The stats are from when I'm coaching.

 

On 11/15/2019 at 2:07 PM, BLarson said:

I do mostly 9-14 USSSA all levels of baseball...I don't think anyone uses a paper book anymore.

A couple things that always bother me doing it electronically...having a score discrepency and a batting out of order question...it takes more time to go through the app than it does a book.

On the plus side, on the team I volunteer coach for, it's nice to be able to access stats immediately versus having to have someone transcript paper to a spreadsheet or some other app.

I'm not the head coach.   I don't have a kid on the team.   I volunteer.   Sometimes I miss a game or 2 because of my family.   With GC I can get stats whenever I want.
When I coached my kids (pre-GC) I only had a book and pulled stats off for the other coaches.
I don't need stats immediately while umpiring.

 

On 11/18/2019 at 11:48 AM, beerguy55 said:

At that point, I don't care if you're using paper or tech, if you're not adept at using the tool to quickly resolve an in game dispute/question you shouldn't be the score keeper.   And I've seen a lot of score keepers that can't manage paper either. If you're the score keeper, use whatever tool is most efficient (and within the rules)

This is what I was trying to refer to.   I would say most people that keep score during the games I umpire are done on phones.

BOO was just an example.   I've also had score discrepencies when both teams are using GC.