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Guest Nick

Live ball

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2 minutes ago, Guest Nick said:

Is the ball “live” after ball four?

Yes, unless it was ball four that also hit tha batter or wild pitch ball four that went out of play. 

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Yes. All runners may attempt to advance, and the defence may attempt a play in a runner. Obviously, if the runners are forced to advance due to the walk, they are protected up to the point that they attain their base 

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On 9/28/2019 at 5:07 PM, Guest Nick said:

Is the ball “live” after ball four?

Yes, except in certain slow pitch leagues where the batter is required to buy a case of beer for taking a walk.

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Well it is unless its a past ball that bounces somehow out of play ( IE into the dugout ) Then its a dead ball and bases would be awarded, or not.

 

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On 9/28/2019 at 5:12 PM, Biscuit said:

 Obviously, if the runners are forced to advance due to the walk, they are protected up to the point that they attain their base 

Pet peeve of mine (and learned the hard way 20+ years ago)...if it's obvious it doesn't need to be said, if it needs to be said, it's not obvious.

Want to have a CEO immediately hate you - say "obviously" to something that wasn't obvious to him.

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17 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Why do so many think it's a dead ball?

 

Probably a combination of a few things...first, they know they have to let the batter get to first, so, to the uninitiated, it looks like the game has to pause/stop while that happens.  Plus, if your baseball knowledge comes from only watching MLB, you will see a lot of "time" called in scenarios that never happen on amateur fields...and, after BB's you do see it quite a bit - where they switch balls, and the batter removes their equipment, and other things going on...and even where they don't actually kill the play, the action is so relaxed that it looks like a dead ball - no point to try something as a runner, because the errors, wild pitches and passed balls are so rare....to the casual observer, it would be easy to conclude that the runners don't advance beyond their entitled base because they can't, because the ball is dead...rather than the actual reason which is, it would be stupid to try at that level.

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On 9/30/2019 at 12:26 PM, Rich Ives said:

Why do so many think it's a dead ball?

 

Same reason that they believe the hands are part of the bat and tie goes to the runner.

To paraphrase @MadMax from another thread.... a nine letter word that starts with "I" and ends with "gnorance"

 

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4 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

Same reason that they believe the hands are part of the bat and tie goes to the runner.

To paraphrase @MadMax from another thread.... a nine letter word that starts with "I" and ends with "gnorance"

 

A tie does go to the runner. To get an out the base must be tagged BEFORE the runner touches it.  If it's a tie it wasn't before.

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How many times does a pitcher issue a walk and the DM comes briskly out of the dugout to talk to his pitcher......and DOES NOT ask for time.  That's because everybody thinks the ball is out of play.

Remember that a BR who is headed for first may attempt (at his own risk) to advance, as may other runners.  I will usually wave at the manager to get back into the dugout until BR reaches first and the play is relaxed.  

As was pointed out above, too many ball players and coaches watch too much MLB!

Mike

Las Vegas

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44 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

BS.

And by rule they go to the runner.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/225160-come-on-blue-tie-goes-to-the-runner-no-it-does-not

Quote

"COME ON, BLUE! TIE GOES TO THE RUNNER!!!"

NO. It does NOT. Not EVER. (Have I been emphatic enough?) Let me be literal; NOWHERE in the Rules Of Baseball does it say "tie goes to the runner."

There's no such thing as a "tie" in baseball—that's an article of nearly religious faith in the baseball community, and it's a big part of why we love the sport. No shootouts or sudden death here—play until someone drops.

Your turn, Rich.

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1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

BS.

And by rule they go to the runner.

Have you ever had one?

The ball in the glove at the exact one hundred billionth of a second that the runners foot hit the bag, Nope, never going to happen.

By the way if your watching the batter/runner's foot hitting the base and listening for the sound of the ball hitting F3's glove and they happen at the "exact same time" it's not a tie, the runner beat the throw, light travels much much faster than sound!

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What do you think an appeal or replay to NY would be the outcome?  . . . It either is, or isn't a safe or out . . . . and in my judgement . . . it's the same.

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50 minutes ago, Lou B said:

Have you ever had one?

The ball in the glove at the exact one hundred billionth of a second that the runners foot hit the bag, Nope, never going to happen.

By the way if your watching the batter/runner's foot hitting the base and listening for the sound of the ball hitting F3's glove and they happen at the "exact same time" it's not a tie, the runner beat the throw, light travels much much faster than sound!

Ummm.... if u hear the ball in the glove when u see the foot hit the base, is that what the “exact same time” above refers too?  If so, the ball was there first based on your logic.  

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Interesting LL Rules:

6.05, Batter/runner is out when he/she is tagged or first base is tagged before the batter/runner touches first ("tie" goes to the runner)

7.08, Runner is out when he/she fails to reach the next base he/she is forced to before he/she or the base is tagged ( "tie" goes to the fielder).

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3 minutes ago, stkjock said:

Ummm.... if u hear the ball in the glove when u see the foot hit the base, is that what the “exact same time” above refers too?  If so, the ball was there first based on your logic.  

Yup, your right.  The point I was trying to make, and messed up making, was it's not a tie if you see and hear both things at the exact same time.  

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3 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

BS.

And by rule they go to the runner.


Say it with confidence ... but it still doesn’t make it true.

 

Ties go to the umpire.

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4 hours ago, Lou B said:

There are no ties in baseball!

Are you tying!?  There’s no tying in baseball!

Well ... except for this disgusting debacle ...

 

A649A7FE-937A-41F9-9130-72B4F1715283.jpeg.3f88988fa453182333c13422591b7c54.jpeg

 

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1 hour ago, Lou B said:

Interesting LL Rules:

6.05, Batter/runner is out when he/she is tagged or first base is tagged before the batter/runner touches first ("tie" goes to the runner)

7.08, Runner is out when he/she fails to reach the next base he/she is forced to before he/she or the base is tagged ( "tie" goes to the fielder).

Which is why MLB changed their wording quite a few years ago to make plays at both forced and 1B the same. Guess what they decided?  Tie goes to the runner at 1B and forced bases. NCAA and FED still have the semantic problem between forced bases and 1B. But no Coach is going to protest if you say the wrong thing about who/what beat/didn’t beat the ball/runner at any in any code. Am I right, @Rich Ives?

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21 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Which is why MLB changed their wording quite a few years ago to make plays at both forced and 1B the same. Guess what they decided?  Tie goes to the runner at 1B and forced bases. NCAA and FED still have the semantic problem between forced bases and 1B. But no Coach is going to protest if you say the wrong thing about who/what beat/didn’t beat the ball/runner at any in any code. Am I right, @Rich Ives?


I may be looking in the wrong place, because that’s not what I am finding ...

 

4F0E719B-EA5F-4DB4-8CBA-52AAB3837E48.jpeg

6C4FF9E3-FCE6-4BB3-ADBC-E4DECC07F42F.jpeg

B2E02903-CDCC-4712-88DF-265EE7A648C4.jpeg

EAA79246-9BE8-4CC2-A289-38C9D511FDBB.jpeg

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I think this is the change to the rule that Mr. Jimurray referred to in an earlier post--

Changes for the 2010 Major League Season

  • Revised language of rule on putting out forced runner. (Rule 7.08(e))

And here is a link to an analysis written in 2012 by Gil Imber of Close Call Sports of this question of does a tie go to the runner? His conclusion is—yes, a tie does go to the runner.

https://www.closecallsports.com/2012/07/rules-605j-701-and-708e-tie-goes-to.html

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1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:


I may be looking in the wrong place, because that’s not what I am finding ...

 

4F0E719B-EA5F-4DB4-8CBA-52AAB3837E48.jpeg

6C4FF9E3-FCE6-4BB3-ADBC-E4DECC07F42F.jpeg

B2E02903-CDCC-4712-88DF-265EE7A648C4.jpeg

EAA79246-9BE8-4CC2-A289-38C9D511FDBB.jpeg

MLB used to have the runner out on a forced base if he did not beat the ball. Now the ball has to beat him at a forced base as it always did at at 1B. MLB resolved the conflict to give the tie to the runner at all bases unless it is an appeal throw. The conflict still exists in NCAA and FED, not that I’m loosing sleep over it. You do see that the base or runner must be tagged BEFORE the runner touches the base in OBR?

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Ok, I see how you are getting there and how they worked around it ... had to clear my mind and use the Umpire Force ... ;)

Before = out

Everything else = not out = safe

 

I concede OBR.  I still don’t think it is a good idea to blindly post “It’s the rule” when you are on a site whose purpose is to educate umpires, most of whom will spend their career working NFHS and below and maybe, if they are lucky, NCAA.

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