Jump to content
  • 0
Sign in to follow this  
Guest Bill

Tagup and passing a runner

Question

Guest Bill

OBR, no outs, R2 and R3.  Batter hits deep to F9 who catches it.  R3 doesn't tag up, touches home and realizes he failed to tag.  R2 tags up after the catch.  As R3 is returning to third, R2 rounds third and heads for home.  R2 passes R3 about halfway between third and home.  R3 (for whatever reason--maybe assumes that the passed runner is out rather than training runner) then turns and jogs into his dugout never returning to third. R2 touches the plate safely.

If the defense doesn't appeal R3 leaving early do both runs score?  Or is R2 out for passing?  Is R3 out for abandonment? 

If the defense appeals R3 leaving early, are both runners out?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

Yes, R2 is out the moment he passed R3. Yes, R3 is out for abandonment.  R3 is also traded:BD:

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
12 minutes ago, Guest Bill said:

OBR, no outs, R2 and R3.  Batter hits deep to F9 who catches it. ONE OUT R3 doesn't tag up, touches home and realizes he failed to tag.  R2 tags up after the catch.  As R3 is returning to third THIS "REVERSES" THE RUN , R2 rounds third and heads for home.  R2 passes R3 TWO OUTS -- PASSING about halfway between third and home.  R3 (for whatever reason--maybe assumes that the passed runner is out rather than training runner) then turns and jogs into his dugout THREE OUTS - ABANDOMENT never returning to third. R2 touches the plate safely.

If the defense doesn't appeal R3 leaving early do both runs score?  Or is R2 out for passing?  Is R3 out for abandonment? 

If the defense appeals R3 leaving early, are both runners out?

No need to appeal -- no runs score and three are out.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
4 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

BUT R3 touched home. Absent an appeal he legally scored  Having done so he's no longer a runner so he cannot be passed. .

True if he had touched third.  But, since he didn't his attempted return is legal, and the run is "unscored."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
2 hours ago, noumpere said:

True if he had touched third.  But, since he didn't his attempted return is legal, and the run is "unscored."

Nope - it's scored until appealed. A run legally scored cannot be unscored.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules and Interpretations Manual (section 5.5.2, pp. 67-68):  Any runner who has legally scored a run cannot have his run removed because he mistakenly returns to a previously occupied base, either believing that he missed it, or that he did not legally tag up. However, a runner may return to correct a running infraction if a following runner has not scored behind him, and if he does return, his run will not be counted unless he touches all the bases in order again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
8 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Nope - it's scored until appealed. A run legally scored cannot be unscored.

That's the key.  And the run in the OP was not legally scored.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
Guest Bill
2 hours ago, noumpere said:

That's the key.  And the run in the OP was not legally scored.

Wouldn't the run be legally scored if there is no appeal?  Say R3 only, leaves early on a caught fly ball and doesn't tag.  Touches home, starts to return to third and then gives up and jogs into his dugout.  Is he out for abandonment if the defense doesn't appeal?  Based on noumpere's original response, I think he'd argue that the start of the return to third unscores the run. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
22 minutes ago, Guest Bill said:

Wouldn't the run be legally scored if there is no appeal? 

Yes, if the runner passes the plate and continues to the dugout.  The "illegally scored" run becomes a run when the defense doesn't appeal.

 

Under what basis would a runner start to return because he missed the base and then give up and then expect to have the run count?  He's now abandoned before (finally) reaching the plate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
14 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Nope - it's scored until appealed. A run legally scored cannot be unscored.

If he didn't tag up it's not legally scored.  If he returns he can be passed.  If he goes straight to the dugout it can be appealed.  It doesn't become a legal score until either the runner corrects his error and retouches home, or the defense fails to appeal.

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

Yes, if the runner passes the plate and continues to the dugout.  The "illegally scored" run becomes a run when the defense doesn't appeal.

 

Under what basis would a runner start to return because he missed the base and then give up and then expect to have the run count?  He's now abandoned before (finally) reaching the plate?

Unless he did tag up.   We know the OP says he didn't, and it's obvious R3 believes he didn't.  But that's a determination at the sole discretion of the umpire(s).  And it would have to be determined by the umpire at the point R2 passes R3 whether or not  a pass actually occurred, or if R3 was a legally scored runner.

If he failed to tag up this is a triple play.  

If he did tag up the run scores, there is no abandonment, and R2 is not out for passing and his run scores too.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...