Jump to content
The Short Umpire

Wilson Charcoal and Extra pants question

Recommended Posts

I'm curious if anyone on here has used the Wilson Charcoal and how they liked it? I'm trying to find the best fitting chest protector and am considering trying this one. Any thoughts on the fit and protection it offers? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had one that I used for two seasons, and I loved it. I own a Wilson Gold now, but I really liked the low profile the shoulder pads on the charcoal. I never used the bicep pads, and even without those, I thought , the protection was great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

What’s the pants question...

oops, sorry, thought I put that on there. 

I keep all of my gear in my car and keep it pack neatly so that it's ready to go. I also have some old gear that I keep at the in a duffle bag at the house as back-up just incase my wife and I switch cars for the day for some reason or perhaps my car ends up at the shop or something. So my question is, I'd like to keep a back-up pair of pants and an extra shirt in my car with my main set of gear so that if called upon at the last minute I could go straight to a game without having to stop by the house. So with all of the new gear that I've bought recently I'd really like to not keep putting money into this and would like to get money coming out. So I have a pair of the medium gray pants that I have hemmed. I bought them not knowing the difference between them and charcoal grey. 

So with that framing, my question is, if I used the medium gray pants as a back up/emergency pair of pants would an evaluator get upset if they happened to be at a game I was assigned to last minute. Would they be understanding or would be chastise me for not spending the $60 more on top of everything else? I'm curious what people's take on this would be? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, EAA_umpire_Sam said:

I had one that I used for two seasons, and I loved it. I own a Wilson Gold now, but I really liked the low profile the shoulder pads on the charcoal. I never used the bicep pads, and even without those, I thought , the protection was great.

I like the idea of the lower profile shoulders. What made you switch to the Gold? Do you like it better? Have you made any modifications to either one? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Short Umpire said:

oops, sorry, thought I put that on there. 

I keep all of my gear in my car and keep it pack neatly so that it's ready to go. I also have some old gear that I keep at the in a duffle bag at the house as back-up just incase my wife and I switch cars for the day for some reason or perhaps my car ends up at the shop or something. So my question is, I'd like to keep a back-up pair of pants and an extra shirt in my car with my main set of gear so that if called upon at the last minute I could go straight to a game without having to stop by the house. So with all of the new gear that I've bought recently I'd really like to not keep putting money into this and would like to get money coming out. So I have a pair of the medium gray pants that I have hemmed. I bought them not knowing the difference between them and charcoal grey. 

So with that framing, my question is, if I used the medium gray pants as a back up/emergency pair of pants would an evaluator get upset if they happened to be at a game I was assigned to last minute. Would they be understanding or would be chastise me for not spending the $60 more on top of everything else? I'm curious what people's take on this would be? 

I would say... probably. The uniform is the uniform. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two things to never skimp on: training and uniforms. I know it sucks putting in the money, but that's the nature of the beast. Look at it as an investment. If you get it now, you save later. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/3/2019 at 10:18 PM, The Short Umpire said:

oops, sorry, thought I put that on there. 

I keep all of my gear in my car and keep it pack neatly so that it's ready to go. I also have some old gear that I keep at the in a duffle bag at the house as back-up just incase my wife and I switch cars for the day for some reason or perhaps my car ends up at the shop or something. So my question is, I'd like to keep a back-up pair of pants and an extra shirt in my car with my main set of gear so that if called upon at the last minute I could go straight to a game without having to stop by the house. So with all of the new gear that I've bought recently I'd really like to not keep putting money into this and would like to get money coming out. So I have a pair of the medium gray pants that I have hemmed. I bought them not knowing the difference between them and charcoal grey. 

So with that framing, my question is, if I used the medium gray pants as a back up/emergency pair of pants would an evaluator get upset if they happened to be at a game I was assigned to last minute. Would they be understanding or would be chastise me for not spending the $60 more on top of everything else? I'm curious what people's take on this would be? 

I would say, it depends.  From my limited experience these colors are all over the place on pants - a charcoal grey smitty poly is not the same color as the smitty poly-wool, and unless you compare them side by side I doubt anyone would notice a difference.  So, your medium grey might be some companies charcoal grey anyway.  But all evaluators are different I'm sure.  As long as you look professional I doubt most care if you're a minor shade off (or maybe that's just my experience - it's rare an evaluator even gets out to my games)- but it all depends on the level, etc. too.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Rock Bottom said:

I would say, it depends.  From my limited experience these colors are all over the place on pants - a charcoal grey smitty poly is not the same color as the smitty poly-wool, and unless you compare them side by side I doubt anyone would notice a difference.  So, your medium grey might be some companies charcoal grey anyway.  But all evaluators are different I'm sure.  As long as you look professional I doubt most care if you're a minor shade off (or maybe that's just my experience - it's rare an evaluator even gets out to my games)- but it all depends on the level, etc. too.  

Medium gray is closer to heather grey... It is very noticeable, even from a distance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends what level ball you are working, IMO. If you mainly work varsity, you need to get a second pair so you aren’t way off from your partner (yes, charcoal gray differs brand to brand, but it’s not terribly noticeable like medium gray/heather would be). Maybe even get combos, so you only have one backup pair that can work for either job.

If you work sophomore or freshman and/or travel/in-house? Who cares, you aren’t matching anyone, they are gray, it’s more than good enough. No one involved in the game will know, nor care, that they are the wrong shade of gray at that point. They are just happy you’re there giving a good effort. 

I realize you said evaluator, which implies varsity, but maybe that’s not the case since you might be new to the pants game? 

As someone mentioned above, evaluators aren’t at most games in my neck of the woods. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen one outside of a playoff game, unless it’s someone from my organization, which is also extremely rare

And if it’s a true “I have the other car today, picked this up while at work, only have backup gear on me today” that’s more than OK in my book. I wouldn’t sweat it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WTA3217_CHA13_2.jpeg

You mean this Wearable Couch, @The Short Umpire

Wilson’s “Charcoal Chest Protector” is their spartan, uber-basic CP. It’s actually a descendent of the original stick-a-plate WestVest that both Douglas and Wilson produced for Joe West’s design. While that design evolved into the planform that became the Gold, and Douglas progressed their planform into their signature CP, this stayed went into seclusion for a bit, then introduced after Wilson patented the Velcro tab system (thereby ending their rivals Riddell and All-American).

Plain and simple, it’s heavy. It doesn’t breathe. It has one size. The plates are quite dense, so much so that they don’t bend easily, nor hold that shape for long. And, my absolute “favorite” about it, it uses the same archaic sofa cushion foam that Wilson just refuses to replace.

Would I use one? Only if absolutely necessary. Would I buy one?

giphy.gif

No, as there are models that will give me better fit, weigh less, and offer better performance for equitable cost.

Now, in regards to the pants... if they are actual umpire pants, then you didn’t get “medium gray”, you got heather gray. Heather gray was the original color, way back when, and Softball still uses it. So, when Charcoal fades, it either goes to purple, or goes to Heather gray. So, you’re left looking like a softball umpire, or that you have “old pants”.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQd6qWZ5ffqp5Zr87hd9XX

I know what you’re trying to accomplish, logistically. Not only is my group in a position to be called in / called up on short notice, but I myself am flying between states, and trying to cut down the amount of gear and clothing I bring. I’ve now placed a spare mask, a spare set of sliders (and spare cup), a plain black hat, a 2015 Majestic all-black shirt (and one of my last remaining navy shirts!) and a pair of PolySpandex combos in a tote in Wisconsin, just in case I get called in by a colleague, LD or TD while I’m in Wisconsin on family visit or business. I’m not really that concerned with my uniform cohesion, since I’m doing those folks a favor.

19 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

And if it’s a true “I have the other car today, picked this up while at work, only have backup gear on me today” that’s more than OK in my book. I wouldn’t sweat it.

@Thatsnotyou has a good attitude on this. Context is a big part of this.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/6/2019 at 3:52 PM, Thatsnotyou said:

Depends what level ball you are working, IMO. If you mainly work varsity, you need to get a second pair so you aren’t way off from your partner (yes, charcoal gray differs brand to brand, but it’s not terribly noticeable like medium gray/heather would be). Maybe even get combos, so you only have one backup pair that can work for either job.

If you work sophomore or freshman and/or travel/in-house? Who cares, you aren’t matching anyone, they are gray, it’s more than good enough. No one involved in the game will know, nor care, that they are the wrong shade of gray at that point. They are just happy you’re there giving a good effort. 

 

I do a little bit of everything from varsity to 10u. This seemed like a silly question at first but I'm glad I asked because I was able to think of it differently. I talked to the league director for the middle school travel league I do and asked him if he cared which shade of grey we wore and he said he's fine with either one. So I will just switch things up and use the heather grey pants on the nights I do those games and use the charcoal grey pants I was using there as the back-up pants so that I am packed and ready to go for any level of play I may get called into last minute. Thanks for your response. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@MadMax That is indeed the wearable couch I am referring to! hahaha I had a feeling that bringing up Wilson might spark your interest. So let me play devils advocate here for a second... :fuel: I'm glad that you referred to the Douglas Signature CP because I've been thinking about it. Now brand-new this is a $200 dollar chest protector, but then adding on the customization of gap protection and t-hooks, plus shipping costs and it starts to add up. So when people hear Wilson they think of the platinum and the gold (neither of them really fit me all that well... they make me look really top heavy.) and this one just gets overlooked. but being in the market for a good deal on a Douglas I saw it and thought, "that looks a lot like a Douglas but with gap-protection coming stock at a $90 price tag... seems like a pretty great deal to me... So my question is, how much of an upgrade would it be to just go for the Douglas? From reading reviews and such it seems like Douglas is praised a pretty low profile CP. But at $90 dollars, even though it may be hot and heavy, would it offer the proper protection? 

I'm also aware of your advocacy for Schutt. I'm sorry to say that even after trying it with a different harness that the XV just didn't fit me well enough to feel safe. However, I noticed that they have another CP... this one right here... https://www.schuttsports.com/umpire-chest-protector.html I'm curious if you have any experience with it. Thanks for you insights! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, The Short Umpire said:

@MadMax That is indeed the wearable couch I am referring to! hahaha I had a feeling that bringing up Wilson might spark your interest. So let me play devils advocate here for a second... :fuel: I'm glad that you referred to the Douglas Signature CP because I've been thinking about it. Now brand-new this is a $200 dollar chest protector, but then adding on the customization of gap protection and t-hooks, plus shipping costs and it starts to add up. So when people hear Wilson they think of the platinum and the gold (neither of them really fit me all that well... they make me look really top heavy.) and this one just gets overlooked. but being in the market for a good deal on a Douglas I saw it and thought, "that looks a lot like a Douglas but with gap-protection coming stock at a $90 price tag... seems like a pretty great deal to me... So my question is, how much of an upgrade would it be to just go for the Douglas? From reading reviews and such it seems like Douglas is praised a pretty low profile CP. But at $90 dollars, even though it may be hot and heavy, would it offer the proper protection? 

I'm also aware of your advocacy for Schutt. I'm sorry to say that even after trying it with a different harness that the XV just didn't fit me well enough to feel safe. However, I noticed that they have another CP... this one right here... https://www.schuttsports.com/umpire-chest-protector.html I'm curious if you have any experience with it. Thanks for you insights! 

run away GIF

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 1:23 PM, MadMax said:

if they are actual umpire pants, then you didn’t get “medium gray”, you got heather gray

@MadMax, they actually advertise "medium grey" on UA.

Smitty Performance Poly Spandex Medium Grey Base Umpire Pants
 
 
Smitty Performance Poly Spandex Medium Grey Plate Umpire Pants
 
 
Smitty Performance Poly Spandex Medium Grey Combo Umpire Pants
 
 
Smitty Flat Front Poly Spandex Medium Grey Combo Umpire Pants
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha, @JSam21!!! Are you evoking Monty Python at the Schutt ULP CP that Shorty pointed at, or at the forthcoming word vomit I'm famous infamous renowned reviled known sure to reply with?

The Adams ULP-CP, @The Short Umpire, is one I have been actually considering trying, just to test it out and evaluate it. I parallel it to a (Wilson) DaviShield. I do question the thickness and durability of those plastic(?) carapace panels, and it looks like they are stitched right to the outer lattice mesh encasing the foam vest. That foam vest, though, is what intrigues me. Smack me silly, but that's D3O – the modern, magic foam that Schutt contracted to put into their football helmets, shoulder pads, and introduced into the XV. Now, why doesn't it say that? D3O was engineered by an English company, and likely has a whole pile of trade and licensing restrictions on it. Schutt may have initially licensed its use on football helmets, and is likely limited –formally – to that only. Additionally, Schutt likely cannot (easily) transfer that license to Adams, their partner/subsidiary. As it is, Adams has "assumed" production of the umpire gear, as I believe that has something to do with Schutt's increased production of football gear and the trade limitations on importing so much from overseas manufacturers. By ascribing it to a partner/subsidiary, this gear falls under a different fees, taxes, tariffs structure...

81-JoHgv3dL._SX425_.jpg

Anyway, back to the item itself... It looks decent enough. I trust my XV on MLB/MiLB speeds (yes, I faced down 101mph this past spring), and most of that is the magic of the D3O foam. I'd estimate (and don't take this as gospel, yet) that the ULP would be sufficient for 18U speeds. I'll probably have to do a MadMod on it to accommodate a Flex-style harness.

Shorty, that Wilson Charcoal CP is just so... meh. The foam vest is still sofa cushion foam, encased in nylon. There's nothing technical about it whatsoever. Now, the Gold and the Platinum only become the most recognizable CPs on the market because of their use in MLB/MiLB. The reason you feel top-heavy in them is because, in order to make them "MLB-rated", they have... <drumroll>... more sofa cushion foam! We're actually spending all that money in the price on its patent and marketing – there's nothing technically advanced in those CPs at all. Now, what irks me about the Charcoal is the same, sole thing that irks me about the Schutt XV – I cannot modify its width. For me, my vaunted Schutt XV could actually be narrower by about 1"-2", especially across the chest. Both the Douglas/Wilson Original stick-a-plate WestVest and the Platinum can have their widths modified. In the Stick-a-plate, all you have to do is separate the carapace plates from the vest and reattach them where desired. On the Platinum, it's a little bit trickier, as you have to kill the center rivets, redrill, and then use Chicago Screws to reassemble the carapace... but it can be done.

The Charcoal? It's just a wall of foam and plates. Again, if I'm called in to umpire a game on short notice, and a colleague or the TD hands me a Charcoal, I'd wear it confidently, safe in the knowledge that it will work. I'd curse it, though, for making me look like a bit bloated, for sliding down my front and not staying in place (because the default harness is pathetic), and for making me sweat like a fiend.

Hey @Aging_Arbiter!...

umpattire_site_cap_1of2.png.4cb6e1d6879d03987a875da4ff67d9d6.png 

I don't see any color called "Medium Grey" on U-A's website. Heck, they have n-a-v-y (Oh the humanity!)... but no, no Medium Grey.
However, if I click on "Heather Grey"... <click>... 
umpattire_site_cap_2of2.png.7fb8a6be712958dbc3b7f0787474e7b8.png

Whoa! Wouldja look at that?! Heather grey and Medium Grey, listed in the same section!

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... It's gotta be... Heather Grey.

I'm not raggin' on ya, AA. Let's just make everything charcoal and be done with it, ay?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Ha, @JSam21!!! Are you evoking Monty Python at the Schutt ULP CP that Shorty pointed at, or at the forthcoming word vomit I'm famous infamous renowned reviled known sure to reply with?

The Adams ULP-CP, @The Short Umpire, is one I have been actually considering trying, just to test it out and evaluate it. I parallel it to a (Wilson) DaviShield. I do question the thickness and durability of those plastic(?) carapace panels, and it looks like they are stitched right to the outer lattice mesh encasing the foam vest. That foam vest, though, is what intrigues me. Smack me silly, but that's D3O – the modern, magic foam that Schutt contracted to put into their football helmets, shoulder pads, and introduced into the XV. Now, why doesn't it say that? D3O was engineered by an English company, and likely has a whole pile of trade and licensing restrictions on it. Schutt may have initially licensed its use on football helmets, and is likely limited –formally – to that only. Additionally, Schutt likely cannot (easily) transfer that license to Adams, their partner/subsidiary. As it is, Adams has "assumed" production of the umpire gear, as I believe that has something to do with Schutt's increased production of football gear and the trade limitations on importing so much from overseas manufacturers. By ascribing it to a partner/subsidiary, this gear falls under a different fees, taxes, tariffs structure...

81-JoHgv3dL._SX425_.jpg

Anyway, back to the item itself... It looks decent enough. I trust my XV on MLB/MiLB speeds (yes, I faced down 101mph this past spring), and most of that is the magic of the D3O foam. I'd estimate (and don't take this as gospel, yet) that the ULP would be sufficient for 18U speeds. I'll probably have to do a MadMod on it to accommodate a Flex-style harness.

Shorty, that Wilson Charcoal CP is just so... meh. The foam vest is still sofa cushion foam, encased in nylon. There's nothing technical about it whatsoever. Now, the Gold and the Platinum only become the most recognizable CPs on the market because of their use in MLB/MiLB. The reason you feel top-heavy in them is because, in order to make them "MLB-rated", they have... <drumroll>... more sofa cushion foam! We're actually spending all that money in the price on its patent and marketing – there's nothing technically advanced in those CPs at all. Now, what irks me about the Charcoal is the same, sole thing that irks me about the Schutt XV – I cannot modify its width. For me, my vaunted Schutt XV could actually be narrower by about 1"-2", especially across the chest. Both the Douglas/Wilson Original stick-a-plate WestVest and the Platinum can have their widths modified. In the Stick-a-plate, all you have to do is separate the carapace plates from the vest and reattach them where desired. On the Platinum, it's a little bit trickier, as you have to kill the center rivets, redrill, and then use Chicago Screws to reassemble the carapace... but it can be done.

The Charcoal? It's just a wall of foam and plates. Again, if I'm called in to umpire a game on short notice, and a colleague or the TD hands me a Charcoal, I'd wear it confidently, safe in the knowledge that it will work. I'd curse it, though, for making me look like a bit bloated, for sliding down my front and not staying in place (because the default harness is pathetic), and for making me sweat like a fiend.

Hey @Aging_Arbiter!...

umpattire_site_cap_1of2.png.4cb6e1d6879d03987a875da4ff67d9d6.png 

I don't see any color called "Medium Grey" on U-A's website. Heck, they have n-a-v-y (Oh the humanity!)... but no, no Medium Grey.
However, if I click on "Heather Grey"... <click>... 
umpattire_site_cap_2of2.png.7fb8a6be712958dbc3b7f0787474e7b8.png

Whoa! Wouldja look at that?! Heather grey and Medium Grey, listed in the same section!

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... It's gotta be... Heather Grey.

I'm not raggin' on ya, AA. Let's just make everything charcoal and be done with it, ay?

A little of column A and a little of column B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

@MadMax, they actually advertise "medium grey" on UA.

Smitty Performance Poly Spandex Medium Grey Base Umpire Pants
 
 
Smitty Performance Poly Spandex Medium Grey Plate Umpire Pants
 
 
Smitty Performance Poly Spandex Medium Grey Combo Umpire Pants
 
 
Smitty Flat Front Poly Spandex Medium Grey Combo Umpire Pants
 

I can attest these are NOT Heather Grey (which UA does state they are not).  However I don’t find them to be comparable to Heather Grey in the slightest, which UA does say.

I ordered them for softball, just received them, and am contemplating sending them back.  I really want to try the poly-spandex, but according to UA, Heather Grey cannot be accomplished in this fabric.

I have a pair of golf pants that I picked up in Heather Grey that are very lightweight and I like the material, but I’d really like something designed for the actual job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, MadMax said:

Ha, @JSam21!!! Are you evoking Monty Python at the Schutt ULP CP that Shorty pointed at, or at the forthcoming word vomit I'm famous infamous renowned reviled known sure to reply with?

The Adams ULP-CP, @The Short Umpire, is one I have been actually considering trying, just to test it out and evaluate it. I parallel it to a (Wilson) DaviShield. I do question the thickness and durability of those plastic(?) carapace panels, and it looks like they are stitched right to the outer lattice mesh encasing the foam vest. That foam vest, though, is what intrigues me. Smack me silly, but that's D3O – the modern, magic foam that Schutt contracted to put into their football helmets, shoulder pads, and introduced into the XV. Now, why doesn't it say that? D3O was engineered by an English company, and likely has a whole pile of trade and licensing restrictions on it. Schutt may have initially licensed its use on football helmets, and is likely limited –formally – to that only. Additionally, Schutt likely cannot (easily) transfer that license to Adams, their partner/subsidiary. As it is, Adams has "assumed" production of the umpire gear, as I believe that has something to do with Schutt's increased production of football gear and the trade limitations on importing so much from overseas manufacturers. By ascribing it to a partner/subsidiary, this gear falls under a different fees, taxes, tariffs structure...

81-JoHgv3dL._SX425_.jpg

Anyway, back to the item itself... It looks decent enough. I trust my XV on MLB/MiLB speeds (yes, I faced down 101mph this past spring), and most of that is the magic of the D3O foam. I'd estimate (and don't take this as gospel, yet) that the ULP would be sufficient for 18U speeds. I'll probably have to do a MadMod on it to accommodate a Flex-style harness.

Shorty, that Wilson Charcoal CP is just so... meh. The foam vest is still sofa cushion foam, encased in nylon. There's nothing technical about it whatsoever. Now, the Gold and the Platinum only become the most recognizable CPs on the market because of their use in MLB/MiLB. The reason you feel top-heavy in them is because, in order to make them "MLB-rated", they have... <drumroll>... more sofa cushion foam! We're actually spending all that money in the price on its patent and marketing – there's nothing technically advanced in those CPs at all. Now, what irks me about the Charcoal is the same, sole thing that irks me about the Schutt XV – I cannot modify its width. For me, my vaunted Schutt XV could actually be narrower by about 1"-2", especially across the chest. Both the Douglas/Wilson Original stick-a-plate WestVest and the Platinum can have their widths modified. In the Stick-a-plate, all you have to do is separate the carapace plates from the vest and reattach them where desired. On the Platinum, it's a little bit trickier, as you have to kill the center rivets, redrill, and then use Chicago Screws to reassemble the carapace... but it can be done.

The Charcoal? It's just a wall of foam and plates. Again, if I'm called in to umpire a game on short notice, and a colleague or the TD hands me a Charcoal, I'd wear it confidently, safe in the knowledge that it will work. I'd curse it, though, for making me look like a bit bloated, for sliding down my front and not staying in place (because the default harness is pathetic), and for making me sweat like a fiend.

 

 

 

First for the Adams ULP-CP, I think I am intrigued enough that I may order one on Amazon so that I can try it on and see what I think. It seems like it would be in the range of Low Profile. Which I desperately need it to be! After I tried on the XV it really has made everything else so much heavier to wear, and this one markets the same holes in the plates method. I think it has the possibility of being what I'm looking for. Currently I'm using the +POS cobra and I love it, but I've had to make so many modifications to it that I'm sure on that if something did happen to me while wearing it that insurance would be even more of a nightmare. So I would like something that I can wear stock/minor adjustments. But maybe I'm being too cautious by thinking that way... 

As for the Wilson, I may just do the same thing... order it and try it on for size and comfort. The Cobra already makes me sweat but I love level of protection I feel while wearing it. The sweat doesn't bother me... I wrestled, so running around in endless layers of sweat inducing clothing doesn't really bother me. I have an extra flex harness that I will try it out with and just see. I do appreciate that there are so many different CPs out there cause there's bound to be one to fit just a about everyone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone on here did try this lightweight Adams CP and said it wasn't worth the funds.  I believe his comment was that the padding is very thin and he wouldn't trust for anything above kiddie-ball.   I have no dog in this fight, but if it were me, I'd find a used Douglas.  I found one with the gap coverage and t-hooks used for around $140 and they're out there, especially this time of year.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...