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Guest Ben H

Question regarding ejection.. NSA league

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Guest Ben H

This is a crazy situation.

Here’s the scene. My team is in the field, there are 2 outs, guy on first. Batter hits a monster home run, flips his bat about 25 feet and the umpire tossed him before he reached first base. We ran off the field into the dugout because we assumed that was the third out. The opposing team said that the home run should count and that player is ejected after his run scores. The umpires decided that the play never happened, and they substituted a player in for the ejected player and we started the at bat over. We are protesting the game and would like some other opinions on how that should have been ruled. I agree with my team and I could see the other teams argument, but I don’t agree with the umpires decision. 

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Ever watch a pro game where a batter is hit by a pitch and charged the mound? Was that batter both ejected and called out or was he ejected and now a substitute was on base? Did they pretend that HBP didn't happen and start over with a new batter?

At bat counts. Home run counts.

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Well, this one will be wholly dependent on the rule code.

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51 minutes ago, yawetag said:

Well, this one will be wholly dependent on the rule code.

OBR:  Home run counts.  Ejection takes effect after the runner scores.

NCAA:  Home run counts.  Ejection takes effect after the runner scores.

FED: Home run counts.  Ejection takes effect after the runner scores.

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I meant it more for local rulesets. I worked under a ruleset where this was an out after a team warning, so the home run would have been wiped away.

I agree that the three major rulesets are the same, though I don't think an MLB umpire would eject for this move in the first place.

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1 hour ago, noumpere said:

OBR:  Home run counts.  Ejection takes effect after the runner scores.

NCAA:  Home run counts.  Ejection takes effect after the runner scores.

FED: Home run counts.  Ejection takes effect after the runner scores.

I'm not familiar with NSA league, but I'd bet it falls under one of these 3 rule codes. Absent any local rule like @yawetag mentioned the HR counts. 

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10 hours ago, Guest Ben H said:

This is a crazy situation.

Here’s the scene. My team is in the field, there are 2 outs, guy on first. Batter hits a monster home run, flips his bat about 25 feet and the umpire tossed him before he reached first base. We ran off the field into the dugout because we assumed that was the third out. The opposing team said that the home run should count and that player is ejected after his run scores. The umpires decided that the play never happened, and they substituted a player in for the ejected player and we started the at bat over. We are protesting the game and would like some other opinions on how that should have been ruled. I agree with my team and I could see the other teams argument, but I don’t agree with the umpires decision. 

Well... it is going to come back and bite your team. But if you guys lost... it won’t matter because it wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the game...

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12 hours ago, Guest Ben H said:

This is a crazy situation.

Here’s the scene. My team is in the field, there are 2 outs, guy on first. Batter hits a monster home run, flips his bat about 25 feet and the umpire tossed him before he reached first base. We ran off the field into the dugout because we assumed that was the third out. The opposing team said that the home run should count and that player is ejected after his run scores. The umpires decided that the play never happened, and they substituted a player in for the ejected player and we started the at bat over. We are protesting the game and would like some other opinions on how that should have been ruled. I agree with my team and I could see the other teams argument, but I don’t agree with the umpires decision. 

So, you're going to protest a game where the other team had a home run taken away from them?!?!?!

The wrong team is protesting.   If you "win" this protest it will be to the other team's favor. 

In what universe is an ejection an out?

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38 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

So, you're going to protest a game where the other team had a home run taken away from them?!?!?!

The wrong team is protesting.   If you "win" this protest it will be to the other team's favor. 

In what universe is an ejection an out?

You need to win the protest so it doesn't happen to you in the future.

The ejection wasn't the out - the bat throw was - which is an out in some local leagues.

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11 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

You need to win the protest so it doesn't happen to you in the future.

They need to be really sure on what "it doesn't happen TO you" means if you want to win a protest.

Sure, it seems the protesting team thinks they had an out taken away from them - and if their league specifically has this provision they'd be right.   However, that kind of rule can have a lot of provisions, including judgment and warnings, and may not be mandatory - ie. the ump MAY call the batter out, or MAY eject him, or MAY do both, or MAY do neither.  The ump ejected the player...he didn't call him out.  The team assumed the ejection was an out.

But, outside a local league rule mandating the batter be out for throwing the bat, the end result of correcting the ruling will be the other team getting their home run back.   So, again, be careful on what you don't want to happen TO you.   

Protest it in the future if you get your home run taken away.

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Home run is dead ball yes?

can the batter be out if its a dead ball?

I would assume the PU could only toss him as its a dead ball and the run still counts. But wouldn't the at bat team still have to put a pinch runner out to round the bases?

 

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3 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

can the batter be out if its a dead ball?

Sure. Passing a runner can lead to a runner being called out during a dead ball.

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11 minutes ago, yawetag said:

Sure. Passing a runner can lead to a runner being called out during a dead ball.

/smacks forehead..

oh man never thought of that.

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Sure. Passing a runner can lead to a runner being called out during a dead ball.


The defense can’t put out a runner when the ball isn’t in play, but he can be called out by an umpire.
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On 8/27/2019 at 1:01 PM, ArchAngel72 said:

Home run is dead ball yes?

can the batter be out if its a dead ball?

I would assume the PU could only toss him as its a dead ball and the run still counts. But wouldn't the at bat team still have to put a pinch runner out to round the bases?

 

Yes.

Yes.

Yes ... aha!  The pinch runner was not entered and did not touch the bases!  He is out!  :smachhead:

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23 minutes ago, Lou B said:

What about the "do-over"?

Is that some sort of stupid local rule too?

 

[Looks at Little League]

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In LL, throwing the bat is a warning/ejection but not an out.

Also, there are no "do-overs" for situations like this.

The offensive team manager is the one who should have Appealed/Protested.

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Guest MR_DH

Had a minors (adult fast pitch) game where there was a heckler in the stands riding a team (mainly 2 brothers).  A brother hits a home run and the heckler shouts a vitriol, profanity-filled dialog about how the on-deck brother isn't as good as his brother.  The brother who just hit the home run, before making it to first, charges the stands (hops the 6 foot fence) with bat in hand and starts swinging it at the heckler.

it was his own team's "fan"...and you thought Philly fans were tough!

All runners scored, but he neglected his base running duties so I called him out when the other team appealed missed bases after the shock wore off. Oh yeah, I said he voluntarily left the game and can't come back. I offered for his brother to join him when he questioned my authority. All players pretty much walked off the field and that team also disbanded that night.  At the end of the season I also joined them in not doing "adult" fast pitch (umpiring).  It has been over 2 decades and I don't regret it.

 

… and that was the second incident I ever had of a player charging the stands attacking his own fans!

 

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Sure hope they called the cops and they arrested the idiot jumping the fence and swinging his bat at the fan(s)!

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11 hours ago, Lou B said:

In LL, throwing the bat is a warning/ejection but not an out.

Also, there are no "do-overs" for situations like this.

The offensive team manager is the one who should have Appealed/Protested.

 

Did you watch the LLWS?

 

[Waiting on MLB to determine that instant replay takes too long, so they order the Atlantic League to experiment with “do overs” instead.  Each team gets two “do overs” per game and completely forego any instant replay.  At any time, a coach can throw on of his two blue and yellow striped bean bags onto the field for an immediate erasure of the previous play and a do over.]

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Can the opposing coach throw their "do over" to cancel the coach's "do over"?

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10 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

Did you watch the LLWS?

 

[Waiting on MLB to determine that instant replay takes too long, so they order the Atlantic League to experiment with “do overs” instead.  Each team gets two “do overs” per game and completely forego any instant replay.  At any time, a coach can throw on of his two blue and yellow striped bean bags onto the field for an immediate erasure of the previous play and a do over.]

Only problem (in the MLB's mind), is that would almost always be used to negate offense, and THAT would truely be a travesty!

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Home team down three, bottom of 9th, two outs, based loaded.  Batter hits a grand slam to win the game.  Opposing manager throws the do-over flag.

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6 hours ago, yawetag said:

Can the opposing coach throw their "do over" to cancel the coach's "do over"?

 

Ah yes, the infamous “Battle of the Bags” game back in 2023.  Brooklyn Mets and New York Yankees in a late season game with playoff implications for both of them.  Mets manager (who was actually just a smart phone application by that point) throws out the bag to erase a double-play that killed a significant rally for them.  Yankees skipper Aaron Boone throws his bag, arguing it erases the erasure.  MLB hadn’t thought this one out.  The Mets computer program then tosses another bean bag to erase the easing of the erasure.  However, Boone saw that coming and also tossed his.  They had to go back to instant replay to see whose bean bag hit the field first.

Before it’s all over, Boone ended up ejected and was carted off the field in a straight jacket screaming about “savage bean bags”.

 

Of course, that was back before the computer plater umpires became sentient on their own ... 

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