Ump admitting wide strike zone.

[Guest Coach Bill]

We have an umpire from hell that we seem to get every third tournament. I promise you I'm not an ass and have never been kicked out. (For the record - I always show umpires high respect when playing.) I believe most umpires are not partial and want to make the right call. We have one that is known throughout our organization of always going against our teams. I didn't believe it until seeing it for myself and being flabbergasted. It's quite ridiculous. No matter how many complaints, he's always there and has been for years. He proudly gives this speech before every game of how he calls a wide strike zone. Last time I asked him "so I know what to tell my kids, how wide are we talking?"  Surprisingly, he told me a ball. (Well by the way - I can't stand this - but I'll normally accept it and just play on.) Well he is so awful, I want to make a point next time we have him. If he gives this speech I'm going to ask him again, "are we still talking a ball out?" "Any other of your own rules you use that we should be aware of or is it just a ball out?" So this time I want to properly protest even if I lose. I'll take out my $100 bill, because I want to make a point. When and how should do it? I can't find anywhere where the ump has "his strike zone." 

[agdz59]

15 minutes ago, Guest Coach Bill said:

We have an umpire from hell that we seem to get every third tournament. I promise you I'm not an ass and have never been kicked out. (For the record - I always show umpires high respect when playing.) I believe most umpires are not partial and want to make the right call. We have one that is known throughout our organization of always going against our teams. I didn't believe it until seeing it for myself and being flabbergasted. It's quite ridiculous. No matter how many complaints, he's always there and has been for years. He proudly gives this speech before every game of how he calls a wide strike zone. Last time I asked him "so I know what to tell my kids, how wide are we talking?"  Surprisingly, he told me a ball. (Well by the way - I can't stand this - but I'll normally accept it and just play on.) Well he is so awful, I want to make a point next time we have him. If he gives this speech I'm going to ask him again, "are we still talking a ball out?" "Any other of your own rules you use that we should be aware of or is it just a ball out?" So this time I want to properly protest even if I lose. I'll take out my $100 bill, because I want to make a point. When and how should do it? I can't find anywhere where the ump has "his strike zone." 

What age group are we talking?

[johnnyg08]

22 minutes ago, agdz59 said:

What age group are we talking?

That was my question. Eagerly waiting. 

He shouldn't say what you're saying he said. But you shouldn't have a problem with a ball off.

IMO, if an umpire isn't calling the diagram below, he/she could stand to start expanding a bit, their overall games will start to improve. 

 

 

[johnnyg08]

Calling the proverbial "black" 

 

[BigVic69]

In little league minors (9/10), majors (11/12), i call a fist on either side. We would be there forever as many of these kidoes find it hard enough to get the ball to some semblance of a strike.

Same age group, but in select baseball, i call the plate. These players have more training and i expect more. However, I watch closely for a good painting of the corner, eh? It may look like i am giving a ball off, but if the ball does not passmover the plate, i do not call it.

I still look for the arm pits to knees, based on the initial approach to the ball so this chanfes from batter to batter. Is this maybe what you are seeing and taking issue with?

I do not have any problems with coaches as i REALLY make every effort to call the same strike zone throughout a game.

My older boy calls it the same way and he has the same success.

However, you will never satisfy all coaches/parents.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[The Man in Blue]

Talk to the assignor/director and save your $100.  Not liking the strike zone is not something you can protest.

If you know he has a wide strike zone, warmup the bats and have your pitcher work the black.

 

[HokieUmp]

14 hours ago, Guest Coach Bill said:

We have an umpire from hell that we seem to get every third tournament. I promise you I'm not an ass and have never been kicked out. (For the record - I always show umpires high respect when playing.) I believe most umpires are not partial and want to make the right call. We have one that is known throughout our organization of always going against our teams. I didn't believe it until seeing it for myself and being flabbergasted. It's quite ridiculous. No matter how many complaints, he's always there and has been for years. He proudly gives this speech before every game of how he calls a wide strike zone. Last time I asked him "so I know what to tell my kids, how wide are we talking?"  Surprisingly, he told me a ball. (Well by the way - I can't stand this - but I'll normally accept it and just play on.) Well he is so awful, I want to make a point next time we have him. If he gives this speech I'm going to ask him again, "are we still talking a ball out?" "Any other of your own rules you use that we should be aware of or is it just a ball out?" So this time I want to properly protest even if I lose. I'll take out my $100 bill, because I want to make a point. When and how should do it? I can't find anywhere where the ump has "his strike zone." 

Coach, a lot to unwrap here.

1.  When and how should you do it?  Well, how about not at all, and therefore, the "how" is moot.  But if you're gonna do you, depends on the ejection policy of these tournaments.  Since you're gonna get run - or *should* - if you do it, minimize any follow-on penalties they might have.  (You might have figured out I'm against this.  Making a point or not, *I'd* dump you with either the pulling the money out, or the associated comments.  And I'd sleep like a baby.)  If it comes with an extra penalty, plan accordingly.

2.  Again, you haven't said what age group, but I'll channel The Rock for a minute:  "it doesn't MATTER what age level!!"  (This is pre-"Fast and Furious" Rock, for the record.)  I know other guys are saying they'll call the plate, and they can do them.  But as has ALSO been pointed out, it automatically includes one ball off the plate, since only the edge of the ball has to hit the black, by rule.  So your offense at a ball out is ..... wrong.  And depending on the age group, it's GONNA go wider.  I've had MiLB guys talk about players at that level expect a 1-2 balls out - that may or may not still be valid.  But if the dudes that are getting paid to play have that expectation, then you and YOUR guys better bloody well not get peeved at a guy saying "a ball out."   No one needs or wants a walk fest.

3.  I'm not a fan of the speech thing at the plate.  At all.  Even if I agree at the philosophy, I won't advertise at the meeting.  I had a coach ask me once at the meeting about my zone.  "We'll all find out in about five minutes, won't we?" was my response.  Hopefully, that coach got my (maybe not so) subtle version of "None-ya, and don't ask."  All I have to do is make some Grand Proclamation, and I've just handed them fodder to run with during the game.

4.  You'd likely be throwing away $100.  I mean, it's not "his own" zone, but balls/strikes aren't even allowed to be argued BY RULE, never mind protested.  Judgement call, right?  I know you're gonna try and tell me "misapplication of the written rule of the zone," but..... no.  I can PM you my address, if you want to waste $100, and you can just mail me the money.

[ScubaUmp]

He says this in the presence of both managers at the plate mtg, he calls it the same for both teams. So is this frustration more on defense, offense, or is it consistant throughout the game?

See diagram above.

ADAPT and OVERCOME !......says, Gunny Highway 

 

[JSam21]

You can't protest a strike zone... swing the bat. 

[LRZ]

10 hours ago, Guest Coach Bill said:

We have one that is known throughout our organization of always going against our teams.

Coach Bill, what you describe does not support this contention.

Depending on the age and skill level, the strike zone of your nemesis may well be common practice to avoid a walk-a-thon, as long as his strike zone is consistent and he calls it that way for both teams. When you see him on one of your games, tell your kids to be prepared to swing the bat.

 

[maven]

Treat the umpire you draw as like the weather: a factor that affects the game equally for both teams that's beyond your control.

I sincerely doubt that your "nemesis" umpire has it out for your team. Most bad umpires are bad partly because they don't care much about the game, just their paycheck, ego, or some other extraneous matter. Also, human beings are subject to distorted perception due to motivated reasoning and the other 157 cognitive biases. (Reading through those, it's amazing that we've survived as a species....).

[beerguy55]

11 hours ago, Guest Coach Bill said:

We have an umpire from hell that we seem to get every third tournament. I promise you I'm not an ass and have never been kicked out. (For the record - I always show umpires high respect when playing.) I believe most umpires are not partial and want to make the right call. We have one that is known throughout our organization of always going against our teams. I didn't believe it until seeing it for myself and being flabbergasted. It's quite ridiculous. No matter how many complaints, he's always there and has been for years. He proudly gives this speech before every game of how he calls a wide strike zone. Last time I asked him "so I know what to tell my kids, how wide are we talking?"  Surprisingly, he told me a ball. (Well by the way - I can't stand this - but I'll normally accept it and just play on.) Well he is so awful, I want to make a point next time we have him. If he gives this speech I'm going to ask him again, "are we still talking a ball out?" "Any other of your own rules you use that we should be aware of or is it just a ball out?" So this time I want to properly protest even if I lose. I'll take out my $100 bill, because I want to make a point. When and how should do it? I can't find anywhere where the ump has "his strike zone." 

If your players can't hit a pitch that's a ball outside or a ball inside they should try another sport.

Hit the ball and be done with it.

 

Yeah, I've run across a few umpires like this - who openly admit to having a "wide and narrow" strike zone, or whatever.  It is what it is.  Where I live every coach and player knows "Harry" and knows exactly what his strike zone is.  Harry also does hockey, basketball and volleyball with the same approach.  You deal with it, and once you just accept him for what he is the game is the game - as bad as his strike zone is I've never seen a game he umped become a farce.   I'd rather that than a strike zone that changes every pitch.

As long as there's a shortage of umpires there will be a surplus of bad umpires - like any other job.   

Teach your players to hit the ball independent of the strike zone - you'll be surprised at how good of hitters they can become.

[JonnyCat]

2 hours ago, maven said:

Treat the umpire you draw as like the weather: a factor that affects the game equally for both teams that's beyond your control.

I sincerely doubt that your "nemesis" umpire has it out for your team. Most bad umpires are bad partly because they don't care much about the game, just their paycheck, ego, or some other extraneous matter. Also, human beings are subject to distorted perception due to motivated reasoning and the other 157 cognitive biases. (Reading through those, it's amazing that we've survived as a species....).

Thank you, Maven. I just bookmarked this page for future reference! As a contractor, I particularly like the "IKEA effect."

Kenny Banya: "Gold, Jerry, Gold!"

[Rich Ives]

I've said this before and will most likely have to say to say it again some time:

WHY DO YOU EXPECT A SMALL KID WITH A SHORT BAT TO BE ABLE REACH AN OUTSIDE PITCH?

[agdz59]

16 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

I've said this before and will most likely have to say to say it again some time:

WHY DO YOU EXPECT A SMALL KID WITH A SHORT BAT TO BE ABLE REACH AN OUTSIDE PITCH?

1.  Because I've seen it happen.  No - really!

2. 28" bat + 12" arm extension = 40".  The outside chalk line is 6" + 17" + 6" = 29" from the inside line of the batter's box.  So small kid can stand 11" inside the batters box - basically in the middle - and reach a ball pitched on the chalk of the other batter's box.

That's where I call minors and some majors LL games and I see plenty of hits.  Believe it or not - even from farther outside than that!

[Guest Coach Bill]

Let me clarify, He's does a little older and lower ranked divisions and I've coached much older ball including high school, but I've witnessed it at 10u and 11U Select Majors (my 10u team will play up). I'm dreading that we may have him again this year, it's that bad. Our parents pay good money and don't deserve his treatment.

In our last game where we had him, there were two elite 10U pitchers going against each other. I say elite, as they are two of the best you'll see anywhere at this age. Both kids throw upper 60's and throw 60% plus strikes without expanding the zone and are 2 strike out an inning kids. Both teams have elite catchers that present well and can stretch the zone a little on their own. (Yes, some of you can be influenced by a good catcher.) He's calling strikes beyond a ball out. He's outside the "brown" in the image above - often calling strikes inside the batters box chalk. And yes, he calls it inside too which is flat out dangerous teaching a kid he should swing at 68mph pitch that's right at him. 

This guy is a farce as an umpire and he absolutely does have a bias against our teams. (I know you guys don't believe it - but don't be biased yourselves for a minute.) Young umpires don't bother me - as I know they are learning. But he's been doing it for years, still doesn't know the rules and tries above all else to show he's in charge. Out of all the umpires I have seen over my 30 years in baseball, I've never actually believed any ump had a bias against a team until I saw this guy. I believe calls can go the other way. This guy makes it clear he doesn't like us. Not just in his calls but his demeanor towards us. Of maybe the 20 bang-bang plays we've had with him - we've never gotten a call. I take the emotion out of my judgment and usually say that was bang-bang - either way is correct. He's clearly missed at least 25 calls against us and sometimes by a lot.  I am the type of coach that knows you'll get some and lose some. I seldom argue, I will simply usually challenge rule interpretations. Okay - once in a while a call, but only if I think I can argue he was out of position. Never one that I know won't be overturned, as I find it pointless. Perhaps he believes he should handicap us as we win a lot of tournaments. Perhaps it started with one coach and he's carried it over to all our teams. I have coached hundreds of games - hundreds of umpires - and it's just a shame that he thinks he's bigger than the game. I teach my kids, the umpires don't have it out for us. They want to get the calls right. But I can't say that about this guy without lying to them. 

In regards to the strike zone - it's "THE" strike zone guys and it is defined. It isn't YOUR strike zone. Kids shouldn't have to guess and change their approach at the plate because you decide to change the rules. With two strikes we teach them to swing if it's close. But I'm not going to teach them to swing at clear balls. That's where my jabbing to this umpire starts. I'll tell the kid, "I want you swinging at it if it is close, but that wasn't. I don't want you getting in the habit at swinging at balls, you did the right thing. We play by the actual rules."  I can accept a half ball out of the zone, but when you start calling a ball out, a ball in, a ball up and a ball down, you've expanded the strike zone 60-70%. To say "I have a wide zone" is a cop out, because you've made the zone subjective. Either the ball gets some of the plate or it doesn't. Teaching pitchers that the umpire will help you if you can't throw strikes doesn't help them either. 

Next time we get him, I am going to record this home plate meeting since we all have our phones out to start the clock. I'm going to get him to admit that his ball out means a ball out of the normal zone. And I'm going to protest. I'm assuming I will lose. But I want the TD to hear it. I will hopefully catch him in a lie, because he's an embarrassment to your great profession. 

 

[agdz59]

4 minutes ago, Guest Coach Bill said:

Let me clarify, He's does a little older and lower ranked divisions and I've coached much older ball including high school, but I've witnessed it at 10u and 11U Select Majors (my 10u team will play up). I'm dreading that we may have him again this year, it's that bad. Our parents pay good money and don't deserve his treatment.

In our last game where we had him, there were two elite 10U pitchers going against each other. I say elite, as they are two of the best you'll see anywhere at this age. Both kids throw upper 60's and throw 60% plus strikes without expanding the zone and are 2 strike out an inning kids. Both teams have elite catchers that present well and can stretch the zone a little on their own. (Yes, some of you can be influenced by a good catcher.) He's calling strikes beyond a ball out. He's outside the "brown" in the image above - often calling strikes inside the batters box chalk. And yes, he calls it inside too which is flat out dangerous teaching a kid he should swing at 68mph pitch that's right at him. 

This guy is a farce as an umpire and he absolutely does have a bias against our teams. (I know you guys don't believe it - but don't be biased yourselves for a minute.) Young umpires don't bother me - as I know they are learning. But he's been doing it for years, still doesn't know the rules and tries above all else to show he's in charge. Out of all the umpires I have seen over my 30 years in baseball, I've never actually believed any ump had a bias against a team until I saw this guy. I believe calls can go the other way. This guy makes it clear he doesn't like us. Not just in his calls but his demeanor towards us. Of maybe the 20 bang-bang plays we've had with him - we've never gotten a call. I take the emotion out of my judgment and usually say that was bang-bang - either way is correct. He's clearly missed at least 25 calls against us and sometimes by a lot.  I am the type of coach that knows you'll get some and lose some. I seldom argue, I will simply usually challenge rule interpretations. Okay - once in a while a call, but only if I think I can argue he was out of position. Never one that I know won't be overturned, as I find it pointless. Perhaps he believes he should handicap us as we win a lot of tournaments. Perhaps it started with one coach and he's carried it over to all our teams. I have coached hundreds of games - hundreds of umpires - and it's just a shame that he thinks he's bigger than the game. I teach my kids, the umpires don't have it out for us. They want to get the calls right. But I can't say that about this guy without lying to them. 

In regards to the strike zone - it's "THE" strike zone guys and it is defined. It isn't YOUR strike zone. Kids shouldn't have to guess and change their approach at the plate because you decide to change the rules. With two strikes we teach them to swing if it's close. But I'm not going to teach them to swing at clear balls. That's where my jabbing to this umpire starts. I'll tell the kid, "I want you swinging at it if it is close, but that wasn't. I don't want you getting in the habit at swinging at balls, you did the right thing. We play by the actual rules."  I can accept a half ball out of the zone, but when you start calling a ball out, a ball in, a ball up and a ball down, you've expanded the strike zone 60-70%. To say "I have a wide zone" is a cop out, because you've made the zone subjective. Either the ball gets some of the plate or it doesn't. Teaching pitchers that the umpire will help you if you can't throw strikes doesn't help them either. 

Next time we get him, I am going to record this home plate meeting since we all have our phones out to start the clock. I'm going to get him to admit that his ball out means a ball out of the normal zone. And I'm going to protest. I'm assuming I will lose. But I want the TD to hear it. I will hopefully catch him in a lie, because he's an embarrassment to your great profession. 

 

Are you saying he calls a wide zone on your team and not the other?  If he calls you one way and the other team different, I'm with you.  Though I don't know what you do about it.

 If he calls it the same each way, what's the issue?  I watch MLB games just about every night and the zones you see called are different.  The teams adjust.  

Walk-fests are not fun for anyone and don't teach the game.  Get the kids swinging and putting the ball in play.

[Guest Coach Bill]

11 minutes ago, agdz59 said:

Are you saying he calls a wide zone on your team and not the other?  If he calls you one way and the other team different, I'm with you.  Though I don't know what you do about it.

 If he calls it the same each way, what's the issue?  I watch MLB games just about every night and the zones you see called are different.  The teams adjust.  

Walk-fests are not fun for anyone and don't teach the game.  Get the kids swinging and putting the ball in play.

In most instances we just adjust. And truthfully, I've seen others just as bad. I admittedly am using his "I call a wide zone" speech against him, because I'm done giving him more chances to be fair. 

His strike zone is a little more consistent than his in field calls. But my guy who sits behind the plate and is realistic says it's about 1/2 ball difference for us and he uses his "bigger zone" as an excuse. Do we get some? Yes. The same pitches? No. That's why I call it a cop out. But his calls in the field are egregious and he treats us that way. He's jovial with other coaches but is always arrogant against coaches in our program from the second of the home plate meeting. I had never met him and felt it right away. When a coach from the other team tells you after the game - "I felt for you, because I've never seen it so obvious an ump having it out for someone." That was in the first game we had him. I've had him several times since and it's always the same. 

I'm seriously not an umpire complainer, but we've got our first tournament of the season coming up and here we go again. I need to send a message to the TD. Maybe I'll get tossed for the first time. 

[stkjock]

does this guy have think salt and pepper hair and a little wacky? sounds like a ump I've dealt with  

[Guest Coach Bill]

37 minutes ago, agdz59 said:

1.  Because I've seen it happen.  No - really!

2. 28" bat + 12" arm extension = 40".  The outside chalk line is 6" + 17" + 6" = 29" from the inside line of the batter's box.  So small kid can stand 11" inside the batters box - basically in the middle - and reach a ball pitched on the chalk of the other batter's box.

That's where I call minors and some majors LL games and I see plenty of hits.  Believe it or not - even from farther outside than that!

Quite frankly, that's not how you hit. You don't extend your arms until after contact. In a proper hitting position your hands are close to your body and a small kid is slightly more inside an adult, but maybe only an inch or two. But no, he can't reach a ball like that swinging the bat properly without completely hugging the plate and/or by having his swing falling apart and ultimately creating a bad habit. And when you call the same pitch a ball inside - he can't hug the plate. If you were taught to hit reaching for a ball with your arms extended, that's why you are umpiring. 

[yawetag]

Coach Bill,

You implore us three times to not be biased toward this umpire, yet your attitude is almost completely biased.

We aren't here to defend every umpire that steps on the field, but we become a bit defensive when a coach bashes an umpire. If he's as bad as you say, then I can only say that you should speak to the league administration about your concerns. I'd make sure you have more evidence than a recording of a plate conference, though.

[Guest Coach Bill]

For the record guys, you don't teach kids to "swing the bat" by teaching them to reach for bad pitches. My kids hit a lot of homers and a lot of extra base hits against normal strike zones. Against guys calling a ball or more out - the pitchers live outside the plate and we're lucky to get a ball or two in the opposite alley and end up with bloop hits. In fact, it's walks that usually determine those games which has an opposite affect on what you think you are doing. Call the strike zone the strike zone. Please. 

[Guest Coach Bill]

5 minutes ago, yawetag said:

Coach Bill,

You implore us three times to not be biased toward this umpire, yet your attitude is almost completely biased.

We aren't here to defend every umpire that steps on the field, but we become a bit defensive when a coach bashes an umpire. If he's as bad as you say, then I can only say that you should speak to the league administration about your concerns. I'd make sure you have more evidence than a recording of a plate conference, though.

We have complained on multiple occasions, but he's still there and we still get him. I said I've had hundreds of umpires and I almost always just suck it up. Even though I think the strike zone should be the strike zone, I understand  some guys are wider. I am truthfully just using his words to show him up. I admit it. I know it's super hard for an umpire to stay focused for 160 pitches for 6 games on a Sunday. I know you're going to miss some. That's baseball. But I need to take a stand against this guy in a more obvious way. He's not fair to our kids or parents and he's an embarrassment. I respect what you guys do. I do.  I understand you have this umpires code, but he's the type that makes you look bad. I promise you, I'm the coach you guys wish you dealt with on weekly basis because I simply talk to you when I want to challenge something. I don't scream, I don't yell. I call time, ask my questions with respect. 

[beerguy55]

26 minutes ago, Guest Coach Bill said:

For the record guys, you don't teach kids to "swing the bat" by teaching them to reach for bad pitches. My kids hit a lot of homers and a lot of extra base hits against normal strike zones. Against guys calling a ball or more out - the pitchers live outside the plate and we're lucky to get a ball or two in the opposite alley and end up with bloop hits. In fact, it's walks that usually determine those games which has an opposite affect on what you think you are doing. Call the strike zone the strike zone. Please. 

First - it works both ways - I've worked with umpires that don't give anything on the edges, forcing pitchers to come across the plate, opening the game up to a slugfest, and just tiring your pitchers out.

I teach my kids to to be able to hit anything they want to.  I teach them to look for their pitch and hit it.   I teach them that that strike zone is simply a guide for the umpire, not the batter.  I teach them to manage their own zone, and understand their strengths and weakness, and to expand their zone with each strike.  I teach them that pitchers are creatures of habit and to use that to your advantage.

I've coached teams into our National Championships and have no less than a dozen players I coached currently playing on scholarships in NCAA and NAIA schools.  They're there 'cause they can hit, not 'cause they play second base well.  I hope I have SOME credibility in this area.

Without worrying about technique at all I can significantly increase a team's average, OBP, slugging and run production just by changing their approach at the plate.  The right technique can be taught for consistency and power six inches off the plate either side.  And I've seen both hit for extra bases many many times.

Good pitchers live on the black.  Good hitters adjust to that.   Anybody can hit a meatball out of the park.

If you can't hit a pitch that is three inches off the outside corner, you can't hit.  

[HokieUmp]

2 hours ago, Guest Coach Bill said:

Let me clarify, He's does a little older and lower ranked divisions and I've coached much older ball including high school, but I've witnessed it at 10u and 11U Select Majors (my 10u team will play up). I'm dreading that we may have him again this year, it's that bad. Our parents pay good money and don't deserve his treatment.

In our last game where we had him, there were two elite 10U pitchers going against each other. I say elite, as they are two of the best you'll see anywhere at this age.  [snip]

This guy is a farce as an umpire and he absolutely does have a bias against our teams. (I know you guys don't believe it - but don't be biased yourselves for a minute.)  [snip]

[snip]  I can accept a half ball out of the zone, but when you start calling a ball out, a ball in, a ball up and a ball down, you've expanded the strike zone 60-70%. To say "I have a wide zone" is a cop out, because you've made the zone subjective. Either the ball gets some of the plate or it doesn't. Teaching pitchers that the umpire will help you if you can't throw strikes doesn't help them either. 

Next time we get him, I am going to record this home plate meeting since we all have our phones out to start the clock. I'm going to get him to admit that his ball out means a ball out of the normal zone. And I'm going to protest. I'm assuming I will lose. But I want the TD to hear it. I will hopefully catch him in a lie, because he's an embarrassment to your great profession. 

(Quoted post edited to save space.)

My turn.

Now that I know what the age range is, I can properly snort my beverage out through my nose at some of this.  Imma let you talk about "elite" players and all that, because you're on a roll, but when you're talking about 10 and 11 year old kids - nah, dude.  Just ..... no.  I have no doubt there are good players - it's always the way of things - but let's not Roy Hobbs these guys.  (I mean, 2 K/inning can happen with a terrible pitcher, if the hitters aren't all that great, too, so there you go.)  And, to overemphasize a point ..... 9, 10, and 11 year olds.  Dude.  Dude.

Speaking strictly for myself, I'm perfectly open to the idea there's bias.  There are two problems, though.  One, you gotta PROVE it to others, not just say "he DOES have a bias agin' us."  It's got to be something you could show.  And two, if you're talking about the traveling circus of tournaments that goes from town to town, is there really anyone in charge of that?  More than likely, there are different "promoters" that run these deals from weekend to weekend, and there's no organization that ties them together, so any blanket ban or something wouldn't work on him, even if you CAN prove something.

I'm glad that you can accept a half a ball out of the zone!  I, and the rulebook authors, are pretty relieved.  Now, once you accept that just the edge of the ball swiping the black - ie, THE WHOLE BALL BASICALLY NOT BEING IN THE ZONE - is *also* a valid strike, you're golden.  Yes, I'm being really SH*#ty here, but since you hate this dude so very much, you're ready to leap over anything he says, and believe that a ball that clips the black is a "wide zone."  It is not.  That's a strike zone, per rule and/or interpretation.

And again, I want to say again he's inviting some of this on himself, by saying ANYthing like that at the plate meeting.  I also will tend to give more than a ball to the outside, especially down in that age group, if I work them.  But I'm sure as hell not saying anything to you about it.  Why?  Because "elite" or not, no one likes a walk-fest.  And I have learned, in my hundreds and hundreds of games, ways to lower the odds of that happening. 

Good luck hunting your white whale.  Remember, though - it also ended badly for Ahab.

[grayhawk]

4 minutes ago, HokieUmp said:

Good luck hunting your white whale.  Remember, though - it also ended badly for Ahab.

That's great stuff right there.