Jump to content

LLWS


urout17
Umpire-Empire locks topics which have not been active in the last year. The thread you are viewing hasn't been active in 1619 days so you will not be able to post. We do recommend you starting a new topic to find out what's new in the world of umpiring.

Recommended Posts

So I'm watching these LLWS games.  I do not want to offend since I don't work this level of ball but is it required for the umpires on televised games to signal their calls like robots? I thought that was reserved for softball games, again, no offense intended, just my observation.  And yes, I understand the proper mechanics are being used but I'd just like to know if this is stressed in all areas of the country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, urout17 said:

So I'm watching these LLWS games.  I do not want to offend since I don't work this level of ball but is it required for the umpires on televised games to signal their calls like robots? I thought that was reserved for softball games, again, no offense intended, just my observation.  And yes, I understand the proper mechanics are being used but I'd just like to know if this is stressed in all areas of the country.

I believe that some of the mechanics either come from, or are shared from softball, but I've noticed it too.  There have been a couple guys who have been very solid behind the plate however, and NOT appeared robotic.  The mechanic for announcing a "reviewed call" is super silly, but, .... it is what it is ....

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, umpstu said:

Thinking the same thing since I've seen different strike calls all through last week.

Yeah ... I noticed 2 other guys pointing ....the rest was some form of a hammer-style.

I believe that's what stkjock was trying to say, so that's why I put the - ???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just my two cents ... even in softball it is very possible to achieve the appropriate mechanics and not look robotic.

Most of what I have seen in the LLWS games looks like guys who know they are on TV and are either extremely nervous or are overdoing it to make sure they hit the prescribed beats.  No different than doing an interview on TV or speaking in front of an audience.  You know what you need to do, so quite thinking about it and let it happen.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope my defense of the LLWS umps doesn't come across as a backhanded insult. And I know we have several cherished members here who wave worked the LLWS and don't want to offend them either.  But here I go any way.

First, I have no exp in the higher level LL world. Next my primary resource for most of my LL info was a friend ( now passed on to his reward) who was a former collegiate umpire, but as he aged he went back down the ladder. So by the time I was working with him he was only working some HS Varsity including post season and a ton of LL. Both paid and unpaid. He was even on the state LL board. 

Here's what I wrote in 2014 about his experience. 

So I think there are multiple reasons they may not always be getting the best umpires. 

  1. Politics, like what I wrote in 2014, you had an umpire better than most at many different levels, that was shunned by LL. He even tried to do it their way. But this limits their own pool.
  2. Availability, It takes a lot of time off from work to do these tourneys, and I think the world of those who use weeks of their own personal vacation/PTO to do this. Even if I had the desire, I could not take that much time away. 
  3. Inconsistent training. The problem haunts every level of amateur baseball, but when you're relying on volunteers, I can only imagine that the problem multiplies. Many volunteers have the best of intentions but are not the greatest source of knowledge. 
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Thunderheads said:

Yeah ... I noticed 2 other guys pointing ....the rest was some form of a hammer-style.

I believe that's what stkjock was trying to say, so that's why I put the - ???

sorry that I wasn't clear, IIRC, LLI, wanted all called strikes using the hammer, on a called strike three, LLI was ok with some personality coming thru and using whatever signal mechanic the PU chose, IE - Chainsaw, etc..

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Umpire in Chief said:

I hope my defense of the LLWS umps doesn't come across as a backhanded insult. And I know we have several cherished members here who wave worked the LLWS and don't want to offend them either.  But here I go any way.

First, I have no exp in the higher level LL world. Next my primary resource for most of my LL info was a friend ( now passed on to his reward) who was a former collegiate umpire, but as he aged he went back down the ladder. So by the time I was working with him he was only working some HS Varsity including post season and a ton of LL. Both paid and unpaid. He was even on the state LL board. 

Here's what I wrote in 2014 about his experience. 

So I think there are multiple reasons they may not always be getting the best umpires. 

  1. Politics, like what I wrote in 2014, you had an umpire better than most at many different levels, that was shunned by LL. He even tried to do it their way. But this limits their own pool.
  2. Availability, It takes a lot of time off from work to do these tourneys, and I think the world of those who use weeks of their own personal vacation/PTO to do this. Even if I had the desire, I could not take that much time away. 
  3. Inconsistent training. The problem haunts every level of amateur baseball, but when you're relying on volunteers, I can only imagine that the problem multiplies. Many volunteers have the best of intentions but are not the greatest source of knowledge. 

Being paid as a “volunteer” ump doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re better than an unpaid volunteer ump. Every ump should be evaluated on an individual basis for their knowledge and application of prescribed rules and mechanics along with common sense. 
    The generally applied statement of “well, he’s / she’s a volunteer” has become old. If you’re going to be a “volunteer” in ANY organization, LEARN, and KNOW, your job, and DO IT WELL!
     I always laugh when someone says to me, “no other volunteers get paid!” . . . and my response is: “do concession stand, field maintenance, or any personnel other than umpires need or require “special” equipment?” Then I hear “ well, there’s umpire equipment to use in the closet or meeting room” . . . yeah, I know I’d put that used stinking stuff on. HA! . . . oh, and I always ask if they know what the annual income of the LL “powers to be” get paid. . . . which brings a look of unbelief, shock, horror and SILENCE! . . . and don’t get me started on these ESPN “A$$H” announcers that get compensated for their “commentary expertise” 
     For the LL “purists” don’t badmouth paid “volunteers” because they accept some $ for their time and personal expense for travel, equipment, and having to listen to BS and sometimes derogatory remarks from coaches and especially PARENTS! . . . again, it doesn’t necessarily make them better, . . . but maybe just a little more conscience of their value and their time. People will GENERALLY take “free”. . . it’s called “the manipulation of good will”.
    IMHO, the most offensive, arrogant, and ignorant sentence / statement in the LL Rule Book is on page 14 under Umpires, second paragraph:  
    “there is no sound reason for paying umpires, or any other person whose services should be provided on a volunteer basis.”

    To attend LL’s Clinics in Bristol, WP, and their other “official” places, they charge you a fee of $$ > $$$ to “learn how to do it THEIR WAY” . . . then they want you to VOLUNTEER YOUR time, and expenses to them FREE!

Let me relate a story. I had a discussion with a State UIC regarding this. He owns a lawn care company. I asked him his hourly / job cost rate which he gladly gave to me (he thought he may have a prospective new customer I guess), Anyway, I asked him if he would please PAY ME his job fee and come to my house so I could show, demonstrate, and explain to him in detail how I wanted my landscaping done. . . . AND THEN, I asked him to come and do the work VOLUNTARILY without pay. Well, that was a whole different story! . . . now it was HIS time, money, equipment, and travel etc.
  
    I think we can safely ascertain that doesn’t apply to “the Higher Archy”? 

    That’s like your boss asking you to “volunteer” to work overtime without compensation while he sits in his office getting paid!   

    Carl Stotz was commissioner of Little League until 1955. Carl was a highly principled man and left Little League Baseball Inc. in late November 1955 over honest and valid philosophical differences centered on commercialization and central control issues with the management of L.L.B. Inc., of which Carl's conscience, would not permit him to remain. 
From that point on Carl continued an active relationship with "Original League" until his passing.

End of Rant:-)

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Having been to Bristol for a class in the spring and a class in the fall I can tell you they have had a swing in philosophy on calls.

Spring we were told "We are teaching you our way and we want you to go out and if you teach, teach our way.  However we know you will use the ways you have come up with thru the years, but know this. You come to a regional for us ,we want it done our way"

 

Fall.  Different message.  You are coming here to learn our way of how we want things, We want you to do this when you go back. We want all mechanics to be our way through out all of LL , we want you to teach their way and we want you to do our way wherever you are"

 

Not a MASSIVE change but I certainly noted the difference.

I was taught the hammer and its been easy not to do anything but ( expect my issue with doing the choo choo train pull at 1st but that was corrected by the time I left my 1st class) 

The instructors there are a great group of guys with a Metric poop ton of knowledge.  I enjoyed both of my classes and even though I felt like a hot shot being there 2 times I bunked with a couple of guys that had been there 4 and 5 times. ( on their own dime too)  Me I am very fortunate the local Wal-mart donated to the league $ to be used to train umpires and our district sent 2 guys in the fall and we will be sending 4 or 5 in the spring.

Very excited for things to come.

But anyway sorry to drag up an older AUG thread just saw it and noted my experiences from Spring this year to Fall this year.

 

Personally  I get why they are trying to make it their way. They want continuity in their system, and yes they allow you to do what you want for called 3rd strike They like that character. However it is what it is, Do not show up the kid.  So mine is subdued. I call it ripping the phone book  Biggest thing is make sure I stay looking fwd.

 

LOL  one thing I noted on the MLB umps during the ALCS is how much they look where they point.  We were told this is one of the reasons why the hammer is better you stay looking fwd  LOL and Yes I have seen LL umps follow there point too  if you are working solo you need to break that.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/12/2019 at 3:40 PM, SJA said:

 

    To attend LL’s Clinics in Bristol, WP, and their other “official” places, they charge you a fee of $$ > $$$ to “learn how to do it THEIR WAY” . . . then they want you to VOLUNTEER YOUR time, and expenses to them FREE!

 

 

Yes. Just like the coaches and league officials. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since Andy Konyar retired, there has been NO standardization among the regions.  While you might see similar mechanics, rule understanding has been allowed to vary.  (For example, I have heard some wild interpretations on 7.13!)

When  you get a third world play in the LLWS--and there were a few--sometimes the umpire crews dropkicked the calls into next year!  So even with standard training, you can't always get equivalent skills.

My personal peeve is starting with bearing:  Look sharp!   Shine your shoes!  Try to get into shape!  But even then, hustle always!   And try to stay awake on the field!  (No kidding!)  Being OVER-bearing does not help!  Do not work on the transactional analysis plane:  "I'm OK!  You're all hosed up!"  Won't work.

Sorry for the spleen, but being crisp with a call is not a vice!

Mike

Las Vegas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Vegas_Ump said:

Since Andy Konyar retired, there has been NO standardization among the regions.  While you might see similar mechanics, rule understanding has been allowed to vary.  (For example, I have heard some wild interpretations on 7.13!)

 

Quote

Fall.  Different message.  You are coming here to learn our way of how we want things, We want you to do this when you go back. We want all mechanics to be our way through out all of LL , we want you to teach their way and we want you to do our way wherever you are"

New thoughts are coming and they had people from Michigan and the Georgia at the class. So Its spreading for standardization. Give it a few years it will be there. Also they are standardizing the 4 man rotation and what happens when. That's supposed to go nation wide this year too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...