Signaling strike three

[spark2212]

I watch a lot of baseball games, and I’ve noticed that typically HP umpires don’t signal strike (they just clench their fist like an out call) on swinging third strikes caught cleanly. Is there a reason for that or could you also signal strike 3 swinging, and then out if it’s caught cleanly?

[Biscuit]

17 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

From what I’ve noticed, even umpires who normally use the point signal will give a hammer strike for strike 3 swinging.

There's a difference between hammering a strike, and using the out mechanic on a swinging strike three. On a swinging strike, except for on an attempted check swing, we're not actually calling anything, just acknowledging that yes, the batter swing. I saw that. Making a fist in the third strike acknowledges that yes, the batter swing, and that's the third strike, he's out. It serves the same purpose as a point, just adds a little information.

[Umpire in Chief]

It's an individual thing. What I believe you are describing is the M1A1 hammer strike. It is the same as the out mechanic.

On a swinging strike 3 there is no need to pull the chain or anything else. 

[spark2212]

6 minutes ago, Umpire in Chief said:

It's an individual thing. What I believe you are describing is the M1A1 hammer strike. It is the same as the out mechanic.

On a swinging strike 3 there is no need to pull the chain or anything else. 

You mean this?

[spark2212]

7 minutes ago, Umpire in Chief said:

It's an individual thing. What I believe you are describing is the M1A1 hammer strike. It is the same as the out mechanic.

On a swinging strike 3 there is no need to pull the chain or anything else. 

Because I meant something more like this:

 

(and yes, those are both me.)

[spark2212]

9 minutes ago, Umpire in Chief said:

It's an individual thing. What I believe you are describing is the M1A1 hammer strike. It is the same as the out mechanic.

On a swinging strike 3 there is no need to pull the chain or anything else. 

Also, while I find “pulling the chain” to be quite fun just as a stand-alone action, I’m curious why it entered the umpiring repertoire, and how it became so ubiquitous.

[Biscuit]

2 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

Also, while I find “pulling the chain” to be quite fun just as a stand-alone action, I’m curious why it entered the umpiring repertoire, and how it became so ubiquitous.

My guess is it's to sell the call on what is often a controversial pitch. Someone pulled the chain once, people liked it, so they adopted it.

[Senor Azul]

Another baseball history question! I love baseball history--thanks for asking. The following excerpt is from the Wikipedia entry for baseball player William “Dummy” Hoy who was deaf but still had a great career in major league baseball.

…(Hoy) is sometimes credited with developing the hand signals used by umpires to this day, though this view is widely disputed; Cy Rigler is believed to have created signals for balls and strikes while working in the minor leagues (although, in the November 6, 1886 issue of The Sporting News, the deaf pitcher Ed Dundon is credited as using hand signals while umpiring a game in Mobile, Alabama on October 20 of that year), and Bill Klem is credited with introducing those signals to the Major Leagues, in the early 20th century. Indeed, no articles printed during Hoy's lifetime have been found to support the suggestion that he influenced the creation of signals, nor did he ever maintain that he had such a role…

And here’s my theory as to why we as umpires need to be more emphatic on strike three. The hitter is now out and we need to let everyone in the ballpark know it.

 

[spark2212]

1 hour ago, Umpire in Chief said:

It's an individual thing. What I believe you are describing is the M1A1 hammer strike. It is the same as the out mechanic.

On a swinging strike 3 there is no need to pull the chain or anything else. 

From what I’ve noticed, even umpires who normally use the point signal will give a hammer strike for strike 3 swinging.

[Thunderheads]

7 hours ago, Biscuit said:

There's a difference between hammering a strike, and using the out mechanic on a swinging strike three. On a swinging strike, except for on an attempted check swing, we're not actually calling anything, just acknowledging that yes, the batter swing. I saw that. Making a fist in the third strike acknowledges that yes, the batter swing, and that's the third strike, he's out. It serves the same purpose as a point, just adds a little information.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!

[ArchAngel72]

April class in Bridgeport LL they told us LL is going to the hammer for strikes as well as outs and that's how they wanted us to do it.  The chainsaw or "other" action was still ok for a called 3rd but if it was a missed swing (not dropped) it was the hammer and announce the batter out. 

Now with that said they told the class they know guys will still use the point but what they want to see is the hammer.  I had trouble with this as I kept doing the train horn or fruit pull.. LOL  took me a bit to get the hammer right (as stupid as that sounds, it made me feel VERY dumb) 

Anyway that's what I learned in the last class I took.  Also not this is at the LL level not anything else.  Do not know what the OP's level they are asking about. 

[beerguy55]

 

 

[spark2212]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

 

 

Is that Mr. Hornsby?

[LRZ]

1 hour ago, ArchAngel72 said:

April class in Bridgeport LL they told us LL is going to the hammer for strikes as well as outs and that's how they wanted us to do it....

Venting: Why does LL (or NFHS, too) think that everyone must do everything exactly the same? Robotic. 

[Thunderheads]

1 minute ago, LRZ said:

Venting: Why does LL (or NFHS, too) think that everyone must do everything exactly the same? Robotic. 

NFHS??  Not aware of that ... at least not hear in Michigan

 

[LRZ]

In my experience in baseball, soccer and basketball, NFHS requires the use of a number of mandatory signals. I could be wrong about FED baseball, though, as I don't work school games. 

[yawetag]

26 minutes ago, LRZ said:

Venting: Why does LL (or NFHS, too) think that everyone must do everything exactly the same? Robotic. 

Lowest Common Denominator. Once you start letting officials do what they want, you start getting signals all over the place.

I've started volleyball this year. I thought softball was particular with mechanics on signals. Now I'm here trying to memorize how to signal every number from 0 to 99 through some archaic method. Why not just use ASL (where I can signal up to 1000 with one hand)?

[spark2212]

I guess I’m wondering is there any reason NOT to signal swinging strike and THEN out on a caught swinging third strike?

[noumpere]

Because it's two signals when only one is needed.  And, (in most instances) everyone can see the swing, so there's no need for the preliminary (swing) signal.

 

You have to give it on the first two strikes so people know you saw it and didn't "blink" and call the pitch a ball.

[Biscuit]

25 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

I guess I’m wondering is there any reason NOT to signal swinging strike and THEN out on a caught swinging third strike?

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There's nothing wrong with it, it's just a little superfluous. No need to acknowledge the fact that it's a strike AND he's out. There's already two strikes, so he's out. No need for both. In addition, a strike signal alone might not be enough. The out signal shows that you know that it's the third strike.

[SJA]

FWIT, I've come to do, and like, Joe's soft "Chico Move" on a called strikes, and the "Point" on the swing. The only difference I do is a "soft hammer" on the 3rd called strike that is obvious.  More emphasis if it's close. When LL pays me, I'll CONSIDER doing it their way, until then,  . . . NADA robot!

:-)

 

 

 

 

[Old Skool]

I was once taught by my original assigner that giving an emphatic chainsaw or punch out on a swinging strike three that was caught was considered at some levels to be showing up a hitter thus a soft hammer indicating an out was all that was needed.  Interestingly, years later my son was told the same comment at the PBUC school when he went.

[The Man in Blue]

10 hours ago, yawetag said:

Lowest Common Denominator. Once you start letting officials do what they want, you start getting signals all over the place.

I've started volleyball this year. I thought softball was particular with mechanics on signals. Now I'm here trying to memorize how to signal every number from 0 to 99 through some archaic method. Why not just use ASL (where I can signal up to 1000 with one hand)?

 

I’ll be in my 5th year of volleyball this year ... let me know when you figure that damned system out.  I haven’t yet.  (Then again, I am not as serious about volleyball.  It’s just something for me to do when we can’t get on dirt.  I’m happy doing junior high and below.  Unfortunately, there is such a shortage that I end up rode into high school games each year.)

[spark2212]

I like to point out to the side on swinging strikes, and more out in front on called strikes. (Again, I don’t umpire, but I like to call games from home.)

[Kevin_K]

8 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

I’ll be in my 5th year of volleyball this year ... let me know when you figure that damned system out.  I haven’t yet.  (Then again, I am not as serious about volleyball.  It’s just something for me to do when we can’t get on dirt.  I’m happy doing junior high and below.  Unfortunately, there is such a shortage that I end up rode into high school games each year.)

This vexes me.

So many soccer, football, baseball, and softball guys don a white shirt, collect a check, and put no effort into learning how to officiate the sport.  Few of them would ever approach their "first" sport in such a manner. After all, it's only volleyball, who cares?

[LRZ]

9 hours ago, spark2212 said:

I don’t umpire, but I like to call games from home.

Come on, spark2212, join the crew! There is a lot more fun--and, I have to admit, BS, too!--to be had on the field than on your couch in front of the TV. Volunteer with your local Little League in-house and see how it goes.