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Pickoff Attempt to Second Base


tmaze
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I know it is legal for a pitcher to throw to the SS or second baseman on a pickoff attempt even if they are not covering second base as long as the pitcher steps directly toward second.  Jim Evans goes over this in his balk video.  Where does it say this in the rules or the commentary? I want to have it handy when our pitcher does that so that it is not called a balk by an umpire who does not know the balk rules.

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17 minutes ago, tmaze said:

I know it is legal for a pitcher to throw to the SS or second baseman on a pickoff attempt even if they are not covering second base as long as the pitcher steps directly toward second.  Jim Evans goes over this in his balk video.  Where does it say this in the rules or the commentary? I want to have it handy when our pitcher does that so that it is not called a balk by an umpire who does not know the balk rules.

You would have to buy an MLBUM or the Minor League equivalent where they specifically state that the pitcher can throw to a fielder who is not near the bag or attempting to retire the runner.

Or you would have to use your Socratic method and elicit the umpire's understanding that the pitcher does not have to throw to 2B as long as he steps and makes a legal feint there. That is in the rulebook:

"Rule 6.02(a )(3) Comment: .................................................................. It
is legal for a pitcher to feint a throw to second base."

Thus if a feint is allowed a throw away from the base is allowed.

 

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From one of my posts in a different thread (but I changed the emphasis):

FWIW, this is from J/R (so, for OBR) -- and I agree with the others that this FED interp is the same. (And, I edited J/R to match the "no feint to third" rule change):

 

11. steps to first base
(a) but does not complete the throw.
(b) but interrupts or hesitates in his motion to throw there.
(c) and throws to first baseman who, because of his distance from the base, is
unable to try a tag against the runner at first.
However, it is not a balk if a pitcher steps to
(a) first base and throws over the base when the first baseman is not in a
position to make a tag attempt.
(b) third or second base (regardless of whether there is a throw).
(c) third or second base and interrupts or hesitates in his motion to throw. The
step toward the base suffices to constitute a feint or throw, so any action
after the step is legal.
(d) third or second base and throws to a fielder who is at a distance from the
base, and due to the distance, is unable to attempt a tag of the runner.

(e) third, second, or first base from the windup position.

 

The theory is that since it's legal to feint to second, then a throw to a fielder away from the base shouldn't be a balk -- it can only help the offense.

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From the 2013 Wendelstedt manual (p. 104):

Any legal feint toward second base requires that the pitcher step to second base before making his feint, or first properly disengage the back of the rubber. A feint to second base does not require an arm motion. Once the pitcher steps toward second base, he has fulfilled all of his requirements as a pitcher. He may then throw the ball to anywhere on the field without taking another step, except to another base.

So, the rule you are looking for is 5.07(d)—it only requires the step toward second base.

2019 OBR rule 5.07(d) Throwing to the Bases

At any time during the pitcher’s preliminary movements and until his natural pitching motion commits him to the pitch, he may throw to any base provided he steps directly toward such base before making the throw.

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And, this is from (an old version of) MLBUM:

REGULATIONS:
(a) The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while in contact with the rubber, he throws to the
first baseman who is either in front of or behind first base and obviously not making an
attempt at retiring the runner at first base. However, there is no violation if the pitcher throws
the ball directly to first base in this situation. Also note that there is no violation if the pitcher
attempts a pickoff at second or third and throws to an infielder who is in front of or behind
either of those bases (i.e., this violation is only in reference to pick-offs at first base). Also
see next paragraph in this section.
(b) There is no violation if a pitcher attempts a pick-off at second base and, seeing no fielder
covering the bag, throws to the shortstop or second baseman, neither of whom is in the
vicinity of the bag nor is making an actual attempt to retire the runner.

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36 minutes ago, tmaze said:

I know it is legal for a pitcher to throw to the SS or second baseman on a pickoff attempt even if they are not covering second base as long as the pitcher steps directly toward second.  Jim Evans goes over this in his balk video.  Where does it say this in the rules or the commentary? I want to have it handy when our pitcher does that so that it is not called a balk by an umpire who does not know the balk rules.

Aside from the fact that the pitcher can do that legally, why would you want him to throw as opposed to holding on to the ball which also would be legal?

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4 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Aside from the fact that the pitcher can do that legally, why would you want him to throw as opposed to holding on to the ball which also would be legal?

A team we play constantly has their runner on second take a huge lead (almost halfway between 2B and 3B) when they also have a runner on third.  I am going to have the SS move halfway in between the runner and 2B as our pitcher lifts his leg to do an inside pickoff move to second.  The other team's runner on 2B always increases lead as soon as our pitcher lifts his leg.  Should be a pretty easy out.  Or, we will get the runner on 3B on when he breaks for home thinking that we are going to start a rundown on the runner on 2B.  The other team's coaches always try to be to cute by half.  The response of the coaches on the other team when I pointed out that is a balk every time their pitcher has their glove in front of their face in the stretch position when coming set (and no portion of the glove was below the chin) was that they played 55 travel games and it has never been called.

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8 minutes ago, tmaze said:

A team we play constantly has their runner on second take a huge lead (almost halfway between 2B and 3B) when they also have a runner on third.  I am going to have the SS move halfway in between the runner and 2B as our pitcher lifts his leg to do an inside pickoff move to second.  The other team's runner on 2B always increases lead as soon as our pitcher lifts his leg.  Should be a pretty easy out.  Or, we will get the runner on 3B on when he breaks for home thinking that we are going to start a rundown on the runner on 2B.  The other team's coaches always try to be to cute by half.  The response of the coaches on the other team when I pointed out that is a balk every time their pitcher has their glove in front of their face in the stretch position when coming set (and no portion of the glove was below the chin) was that they played 55 travel games and it has never been called.

That's only a balk in Fed (any part of the glove must be AT or below the chin).  Unless it's blatant, it's not going to get called.  It's perfectly legal in OBR.

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1 minute ago, grayhawk said:

That's only a balk in Fed (any part of the glove must be AT or below the chin).  Unless it's blatant, it's not going to get called.  It's perfectly legal in OBR.

Understood.  We follow Fed in our league.  Comments in NFHS casebook address the exact situation.

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7 minutes ago, tmaze said:

Understood.  We follow Fed in our league.  Comments in NFHS casebook address the exact situation.

If you use Fed, then all of the above references are of no official use.  You won't find a Fed citation that will help you, unfortunately.  I would give your chances of having it called properly at about 50%.

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34 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

If you use Fed, then all of the above references are of no official use.  You won't find a Fed citation that will help you, unfortunately.  I would give your chances of having it called properly at about 50%.

You mean the legal pickoff move to second, right?  If so, that was my fear......

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You mean the legal pickoff move to second, right?  If so, that was my fear......


Yes. In fact, the only case play that’s similar (to the uninformed) is 6.2.4 Situation J, but that play is at first base so it’s not relevant for second or third bases.
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FED has the same rule (6-2-4b) as OBR about stepping toward second base—that only a step is required in a move toward second base. It also has the following case play—

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 6.2.4 Situation G:  R1 and R2. After F1 has come set, he steps with his nonpivot foot (a) toward second or (b) toward first or home. He does not throw the ball. RULING:  In (a), the act is legal. In (b), F1 has committed a balk.

So, it does not spell it out like all the OBR manuals do, but I think we can construe from the rule and case play that the pitcher could either feint or throw to a fielder who is not covering second base.

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21 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

FED has the same rule (6-2-4b) as OBR about stepping toward second base—that only a step is required in a move toward second base. It also has the following case play—

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 6.2.4 Situation G:  R1 and R2. After F1 has come set, he steps with his nonpivot foot (a) toward second or (b) toward first or home. He does not throw the ball. RULING:  In (a), the act is legal. In (b), F1 has committed a balk.

So, it does not spell it out like all the OBR manuals do, but I think we can construe from the rule and case play that the pitcher could either feint or throw to a fielder who is not covering second base.

I agree 100% with all of this.  The OP, @tmaze, was requesting something he can use as a reference when an umpire calls a balk on this (which will most certainly happen at some point). Construing from a rule and/or case play likely wouldn't fit the bill.  Of course, it's fairly difficult to use said reference on the field following a balk call anyway without getting run.

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6 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

I agree 100% with all of this.  The OP, @tmaze, was requesting something he can use as a reference when an umpire calls a balk on this (which will most certainly happen at some point). Construing from a rule and/or case play likely wouldn't fit the bill.  Of course, it's fairly difficult to use said reference on the field following a balk call anyway without getting run.

Thanks guys.  Appreciate all of this.  Crazy that it will be entirely legal and guys that ump in our league (even though ISHA certified) just do not know the rules well enough to know that it is not a balk. 

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16 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

I agree 100% with all of this.  The OP, @tmaze, was requesting something he can use as a reference when an umpire calls a balk on this (which will most certainly happen at some point). Construing from a rule and/or case play likely wouldn't fit the bill.  Of course, it's fairly difficult to use said reference on the field following a balk call anyway without getting run.

One confirmation is needed.  The pitcher can only break his hands on the inside pickoff move to second when the pivot foot is no longer in contact with the pitching plate, correct?

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7 minutes ago, tmaze said:

One confirmation is needed.  The pitcher can only break his hands on the inside pickoff move to second when the pivot foot is no longer in contact with the pitching plate, correct?

No.  How can a pitcher feint or throw to second on an inside move without breaking his hands?

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