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Thatsnotyou

When is it possession on a force out?

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In MLB replay for a force play, is it considered possession when it enters the circumference of the glove, even if not entirely closed yet? Or is it when the glove closes on it/hits back of glove? 

Obviously we listen for the glove and watch the bag. We can’t see, nor differentiate, ball within the circumference of the glove. You can on replay, however. 

Is there anything in the MLB replay rules for this? 

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Surprised this wasn't answered yet. I can't say for sure but I recall hearing it was currently interpreted as when the ball enters into the glove not when it hits the back of the glove. I remember thinking it didn't make sense as the only way umpires can call that is by hearing the ball hit the glove and the replay interp does not line up with how all umpires make this call. 

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My son and I were having this discussion at a ballgame (watching, not working) today ... eerie!

My personal thought is the ball is not “secured” when it has only entered the area between the fingers.  The ball can still hit the palm, heel, or web and bounce around or bounce out, so why would you consider that the moment of the catch?

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Here's how it "appears" to me from watching several banger plays being reviewed. I have no rules reference or citations, just observations.

It seems that they judge the out when the ball enters the glove and securing only becomes an issue if the ball is bobbled or comes out.  It just seems that once the ball enters securing is assumed. 

I too have thought a time or two, that after review the out has been awarded on these bangers before the catch has been completed.

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From the point that the ball touches the glove or hand as long as the defender maintains possession from that point

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56 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

From the point that the ball touches the glove or hand as long as the defender maintains possession from that point

I like this theory.  When the ball touches the glove I assume thats when the "smack" sound is made and thus upon it it is secured by closing the mitt around it. So long as its not "bobbled" I would say that the ball touching it is possession.

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Just now, ArchAngel72 said:

I like this theory.  When the ball touches the glove I assume thats when the "smack" sound is made and thus upon it it is secured by closing the mitt around it. So long as its not "bobbled" I would say that the ball touching it is possession.

That is the MLBUM Interp...

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There's less than 3/1000 of second between ball touches/smacks (figure a 90mph throw = 1584 inches/second, three inches between touch/smack).  Realistically, even with slo-mo replay, that's pretty hard to detect.

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5 hours ago, rcjhyman said:

There's less than 3/1000 of second between ball touches/smacks (figure a 90mph throw = 1584 inches/second, three inches between touch/smack).  Realistically, even with slo-mo replay, that's pretty hard to detect.

 

Not when you are watching your ten-year old from 200 feet away through chain link fence, players on the field, and three more rows of parents.  Pretty easy.

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13 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

Not when you are watching your ten-year old from 200 feet away through chain link fence, players on the field, and three more rows of parents.  Pretty easy.

Oh come on man.. States here in NH I had LF line and the guys next to me 175 feet from the plate could clearly see the strike zone.  I mean they were all at the fence but they could call it clearly from there.  They even asked me if I thought that was a strike.  Of course I could not call time and correct my partner that the ball he he had called was indeed a strike according to the fans next to me along the fence out there in left field.  :P

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You should have been offering help all along by pointing and yelling “Strike!” as the pitch came in.  :Facepalm:

 

For new umpires: chain link fencing does have mystical magnification and clarification qualities.  Better than any set of glasses or camera ever could.

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On 7/13/2019 at 12:03 AM, Thatsnotyou said:

In MLB replay for a force play, is it considered possession when it enters the circumference of the glove, even if not entirely closed yet? Or is it when the glove closes on it/hits back of glove? 

Obviously we listen for the glove and watch the bag. We can’t see, nor differentiate, ball within the circumference of the glove. You can on replay, however. 

Is there anything in the MLB replay rules for this? 

IMHO, (for IR purposes only) when it totally enters the glove even if not touching anything/leather yet. Pretty much when you loose sight of the ball because it is totally within (snow cone does not count) even though not hitting/ touching any leather yet, like it seems like you were saying in the second line. No replay involved, it would go by hitting back/pocket of glove for the umpire to hear the pop, just like before IR became a reality. Is there a difference in the two scenarios. Heck yes. So sad, too bad.

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