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spark2212

Batting from outside the batter’s box—procedure

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Whose job is it to ensure that the batter stays in the batter’s box, and who can call him out if he bats from outside the lines?

 

Also, is there any way for an opposing manager to call attention to such a rule violation and get the out?

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2019 NFHS Case Book Play 7.3.2 Situation B:  B1 assumes his batting stance (a) with his right foot on the back line but not outside the back line of the batter’s box, (b) with his right foot partially on the back line and partially outside the back line of the batter’s box, or (c) with his right foot completely outside the back line of the batter’s box. RULING:  The stance in (a) is proper. However, in (b) and (c), the umpire shall instruct the batter to assume his stance so neither foot is outside the lines of the batter’s box.

Also see case plays 7.3.2 A and C.

2019 NCAA rule 7-1f. A batter’s legal position in the box shall be defined as having both feet completely within the box (lines are part of the box).

Note: Umpires are to enforce this rule as written. If the line of the batter’s box has been erased, the umpire shall require that upon the batter’s initial stance, both feet are no closer than 6 inches from the inside edge of home plate.

PENALTY—Require the batter to move to a proper position.

OBR:  Same as FED. (5.04b-5; 5.04b-5 Approved Ruling)

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21 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 7.3.2 Situation B:  B1 assumes his batting stance (a) with his right foot on the back line but not outside the back line of the batter’s box, (b) with his right foot partially on the back line and partially outside the back line of the batter’s box, or (c) with his right foot completely outside the back line of the batter’s box. RULING:  The stance in (a) is proper. However, in (b) and (c), the umpire shall instruct the batter to assume his stance so neither foot is outside the lines of the batter’s box.

Also see case plays 7.3.2 A and C.

2019 NCAA rule 7-1f. A batter’s legal position in the box shall be defined as having both feet completely within the box (lines are part of the box).

Note: Umpires are to enforce this rule as written. If the line of the batter’s box has been erased, the umpire shall require that upon the batter’s initial stance, both feet are no closer than 6 inches from the inside edge of home plate.

PENALTY—Require the batter to move to a proper position.

OBR:  Same as FED. (5.04b-5; 5.04b-5 Approved Ruling)

However, batters will sometimes hit the ball while standing outside of the batter’s box, and according to OBR 6.03 (a), the batter would be ruled out as penalty. My question is, whose job is it to notice, and who is allowed to point out such a play?

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The reality is that unless it's really egregious it's not going to be seen. Base umpires are too far away and the plate umpire needs to be focused on the pitch. No one is specifically watching for this.

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3 minutes ago, pnewton said:

The reality is that unless it's really egregious it's not going to be seen. Base umpires are too far away and the plate umpire needs to be focused on the pitch. No one is specifically watching for this.

And there’s nothing any opposing manager can do?

 

It makes me wonder why things like this aren’t reviewable. I know they don’t come up often, but when it does, it seems to be nearly impossible to enforce. 

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10 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

And there’s nothing any opposing manager can do?

 

It makes me wonder why things like this aren’t reviewable. I know they don’t come up often, but when it does, it seems to be nearly impossible to enforce. 

In my experience (playing and watching), if it's egregious than the PU will usually catch it a step or two after contact... ie. the PU sees that the swing was abnormal in some way, then after contact is made, peeks and notices the lead foot leaving (first step after contact for the lead foot) from a spot that is outside the batter's box completely.

Basically the PU doesn't see it during contact (because he/she is not focused on it), but directly after contact see's where the feet are and puts two and two together.

Happens more in softball I think.

 

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2 minutes ago, RBIbaseball said:

In my experience (playing and watching), if it's egregious than the PU will usually catch it a step or two after contact... ie. the PU sees that the swing was abnormal in some way, then after contact is made, peeks and notices the lead foot leaving (first step after contact for the lead foot) from a spot that is outside the batter's box completely.

Basically the PU doesn't see it during contact (because he/she is not focused on it), but directly after contact see's where the feet are and puts two and two together.

Happens more in softball I think.

 

Makes sense, I guess.

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I had a coach try and get me to call this on the opposing team this season. He even demonstrated the 'out of the box' by stepping on the line. I asked if the player did exactly as he showed me... Yes was his reply. Then awesome, just as you showed, he is 100% legal. 

LL minors BTW... so handled it as a learning experience for the coach versus the 'drawing a line' kind of result.

Next day he and I spoke... he got into the rule book, found out he was in error and learned something new.

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@spark2212

"And there’s nothing any opposing manager can do? "

Usually a player has a tendency to flirt with the line on this one on a regular basis vs. it being some one time thing (ie they take huge steps, tend to drag bunt/slap hit, or they stand on the very edge of the box).

Only thing I've seen is managers asking the umpire to look for it (on a specific player even), and then that umpire making a call the next at bat when it does happen.

As far as it being reviewable in the MLB, sure I guess, but how often does this actually happen at MLB level? I would guess close to never.

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3 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

I had a coach try and get me to call this on the opposing team this season. He even demonstrated the 'out of the box' by stepping on the line. I asked if the player did exactly as he showed me... Yes was his reply. Then awesome, just as you showed, he is 100% legal. 

LL minors BTW... so handled it as a learning experience for the coach versus the 'drawing a line' kind of result.

Next day he and I spoke... he got into the rule book, found out he was in error and learned something new.

Curious, if he would have understood and demonstrated it correctly (completely outside the box), what would your response have been then?

edit: LL minors - If they are anywhere near the minors skill level around me (very low) I'm never calling this, lol. (unless it was something super crazy)

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Reviewable? OK, let's implement another time-consuming delay. If the games gets any longer, MLB seats will have to be Murphy beds.

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8 minutes ago, RBIbaseball said:

@spark2212

"And there’s nothing any opposing manager can do? "

Usually a player has a tendency to flirt with the line on this one on a regular basis vs. it being some one time thing (ie they take huge steps, tend to drag bunt/slap hit, or they stand on the very edge of the box).

Only thing I've seen is managers asking the umpire to look for it (on a specific player even), and then that umpire making a call the next at bat when it does happen.

As far as it being reviewable in the MLB, sure I guess, but how often does this actually happen at MLB level? I would guess close to never.

Almost never, but I’ve seen it go uncalled, and it is not a reviewable play.

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6 minutes ago, LRZ said:

Reviewable? OK, let's implement another time-consuming delay. If the games gets any longer, MLB seats will have to be Murphy beds.

I’m all for making sure the rules are enforced; since this comes up so rarely I doubt it would have any impact on pace-of-play.

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31 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

And there’s nothing any opposing manager can do?

The opposing manager can point it out, and the umpire can look for it.  The umpire will miss more pitches, though, if he's watching the feet.

I do recall some play along these lines made "sportscenter" (or similar) within the past month or so.  IMO, it was newsworthy because it happens so infrequently.

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If it comes up so rarely, it's probably not worth troubling about.

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17 hours ago, RBIbaseball said:

Curious, if he would have understood and demonstrated it correctly (completely outside the box), what would your response have been then?

edit: LL minors - If they are anywhere near the minors skill level around me (very low) I'm never calling this, lol. (unless it was something super crazy)

Yeah... this was a 8-9 YO game.

If he had demonstrated properly? Most likely I would mention to him that if I'm staring at the feet, I'm not watching his pitch... pick your poison

Reality, I would use the old... I'll keep an eye out for it coach. 

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17 hours ago, LRZ said:

If it comes up so rarely, it's probably not worth troubling about.

this /\

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Only time I have ever called this was when the batter squared to bunt and lunged out across the plate to make contact.  Otherwise I tell the coach I will watch for it but my main focus is the pitch.

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Same with me last weekend (12 USSSA Majors)...left handed batter stepped out of the box on the plate to bunt an outside pitch.
I only saw it because the ball was laid down right in front of him.
The coach came over for an explanation and I told him I would only call it if I was 100% sure he was completely out of the box.

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3 minutes ago, BLarson said:

Same with me last weekend (12 USSSA Majors)...left handed batter stepped out of the box on the plate to bunt an outside pitch.
I only saw it because the ball was laid down right in front of him.
The coach came over for an explanation and I told him I would only call it if I was 100% sure he was completely out of the box.

So what happened? Was he safe or out?

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