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Little League noise and chanting rule ?

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Good Evening I got asked to do a favor and work a Little League District  game Majors .  When at bat the one team would holler and root for their batter very loudly from the dugout . They did not make any negative or personal comments toward the pitcher.  Just lots of typical" hit that ball hard "  drive it out and other loud encouragements or chant the name of the batter.  The Defensive coach says that this is not allowed and they have to quiet down during the pitch?????  In the green book the only rule i can find is 4.06b ?  Is that really a proper interpretation of the rule? I think its stupid ? This isn't golf .  

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Will be curious to see the LL specific answer ...

 

... in the rulesets I work, nothing illegal from what you describe.  Commonly the only restrictions are: no artificial noisemakers, chants must be in a good sporting manner (for your team, not against the other team; no calling out players; etc.), and no banging/drumming/rattling the fence/etc.

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I’ve seen ground rules at some tournament venues that don’t allow noisemakers and require silence from spectators and teams once pitcher takes the rubber. There is no rule supporting that. 

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IIRC, somewhere, it is mentioned that cheers/chants by the offense that get louder as the pitcher starts his windup are not allowed. 

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The guy who was my local LL head umpire for several years (pretty high up in LL, did state tournaments a few times) basically said that the offensive team can be as loud as they want, but that they can't change what they're doing as the pitcher is winding up or delivering, or it constitutes an attempt to make the pitcher balk (or illegally pitch, at Majors and below). Generally, chanting, clapping, yelling, and commotion is fine; screaming during a delivery isn't. 

That said, I don't know that I could point to a specific rule or interpretation affirming this. 

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4.06-- No manager, coach or player, shall at any time, whether from the bench or the playing field or elsewhere -

(MINOR/MAJOR BASEBALL AND SOFTBALL) (3) make any move calculated to cause the pitcher to commit an illegal pitch;
(INTERMEDIATE (50/70) DIVISION/JUNIOR/SENIOR/BIG LEAGUE BASEBALL) (3) make any move calculated to cause the pitcher to commit a balk;

The umpire may first warn the player, coach and/or manager. If continued, remove the player, coach and/or manager from the game or bench. If such action causes an illegal pitch (a balk in Intermediate (50/70) Division/Junior/Senior/Big League Baseball) it shall be nullified.

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Seems like they were doing nothing wrong unless your league implemented a rule against it.

Here's the entire 4.06 from the 2019 LL baseball rules:

  • 4.06 - No manager, coach, or player, shall at any time, whether from the bench or the playing field or elsewhere -                
  • ( a)         incite, or try to incite, by word or sign, a demonstration by spectators;                
  • ( b)         use language which will in any manner refer to or reflect upon opposing players, manager, coach, an umpire, or spectators;                
  • ( c)         make any move calculated to cause the pitcher to commit an illegal pitch [a balk in Intermediate (50-70) Division/ Junior/ Senior League];                
  • ( d)         take a position in the batter’s line of vision, with the deliberate intent to distract the batter.
  • The umpire may first warn the player, coach, and/ or manager. If continued, remove the player, coach, and/ or manager from the game or bench. If such action causes an illegal pitch [a balk in Intermediate (50-70) Division/ Junior/ Senior League], it shall be nullified.

And for those who are curious the LL softball rules are verbatim.

The few LL softball games I have umpired so far have team chants referring to the other players batters/pitchers throughout the entire game... so I guess if I was enforcing the rule, I should have put a stop to those ones? ie "Look at that pitcher, is she high or is she low, is she fast or is she slow" - something like that, lol - seems innocent enough and no one has ever complained, but technically referring to the pitcher.

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From the 2019 Little League Rules Instruction Manual:

4.06 - No manager, coach or player, shall at any time, whether from the bench or the playing field or elsewhere –

(b) use language which will in any manner refer to or reflect upon opposing players, manager, coach, an umpire or spectators;

INSTRUCTOR'S COMMENTS:

This includes firing up the crowd against the umpires or opposing team. The penalty is ejection from the game.

Language from anyone that reflects badly upon opposing players, manager, coach, an umpire or spectators. Penalty is ejection.

Most teams, particularly infielders, chatter (“Hey, batter, batter”) when the ball is being delivered. This is usually acceptable, and has not caused any problems in local leagues. Do not, however, allow any player, especially the catcher, to yell “Swing” at the batter when the ball is being delivered.

(c) make any move calculated to cause the pitcher to commit an illegal pitch [a balk in BASEBALL: Intermediate (50-70) Division/Junior/Senior League];

INSTRUCTOR'S COMMENTS:

Stop this maneuver immediately.

This could involve many acts, such as the batter stepping out of box or raising his/her hand toward the pitcher, the base coach yelling “Go” or “Balk”, the base runner yelling, or the manager yelling “Time” from the dugout.

The base runner clapping his/her hands or kicking the dirt is normally not a problem and should be ignored.

Even though the following case play is for high school I think it goes quite well with the previous Little League rules. And I also think it just might be the IIRC Mr. Richvee mentioned.

2014 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 12: The visiting team has developed an orchestrated team action to cheer on a teammate to get a rally going. The action consists of a rhythmic series of hand claps and foot stomps. RULING: As long as the action is within the spirit of fair play, and not intended to induce a balk, create a distraction for the opposing team or intimidate/demean them, this action is acceptable. There have been some instances where a team, for example, begins to pound bats in the dugout only when the opposing pitcher begins to deliver a pitch. That action is clearly intended to gain an advantage and is not to be allowed. (3-3-1)

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Ever done a girl's softball game?  Those chants are festive!  They ought to put those on "America's got Talent!"

Basically, the defensive manager is scatalogically overburdened!  Chanting in support of your own team is allowed.  Sounds like that's what that was!

If, on the other hand, you feel that the offensive chants are deliberately synced with the pitcher's delivery--in other words, trying to make him goof up--, then you have authority to put the kibosh to it.  That IS definitely unsporting!  (And other posters have cited the rule.)

IMO, tell the defensive manager to obtain a deck of cards and deal with it!

Mike

Las Vegas

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If the team is just cheering for their players and nothing is changing during the whole time the pitcher is delivering, then other than some unsportsmanlike issue, I'm ignoring.

Now if they crescendo when the F1 is delivering, or they are dead quiet until that point and then suddenly loud, that I am addressing. 

 

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We got warned once for stealing signs, when a couple of our players told the batter to watch for the curveball, on a 2 strike count. (not a fan of that rule)

I agree with making sure the other team doesn't disrupt the pitcher. I also don't like when teams yell, "Trouble!" on a fly ball. 

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Thankfully for the regular season, we do not use the stealing signs rules... which let's be honest is silly at 12u. Not much we can do during the Allstar tournament, since it is a rule they want enforced at that point.

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Not sure players yelling "watch out for the curve" is stealing signs.  Lots of LL pitchers throw curves to try to get a strike out, especially on an 0-2 or 1-2 or even 2-2 count.

Was the player yelling it on second base (might be stealing the sign from the catcher) or was it being yelled by players in the dugout?

I hear coaches yelling it from the dugout all the time!  That and the time honored "keep your eye on the ball".

If I'm the pitcher and I hear "watch out for the curve" I'm throwing the heater! :)

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17 hours ago, Lou B said:

especially on an 0-2 or 1-2 or even 2-2 count

I'll admit it...............when on the dish, with 2 strikes, I'm watching for the deuce myself

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Ok So..

 

Could you resolve this like this.

 

You see a pitcher obviously shaken or bothered by said chanting while he is pitching.

You see him give the slightest twitch that is not normal for his delivery.  "That's a Balk" "Time" " No bases awarded"  call Offensive Coach over warn him chanting while pitching must now stop as you have deemed this effected the pitcher. Move on from there.  

 

I dunno I'm spitballing..

 

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it's been stated that (along with the rules) CS & FP dictate that no sudden yelling or getting louder during his delivery is accepted.

 

:sarcasm:Maybe during practice, have the pitcher wearing ear buds that are blasting hard core death metal music.  should make the other dugout seem pale in comparison.

I dunno, I'm spitballing. 

 

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On 7/10/2019 at 3:11 PM, Lou B said:

 

If I'm the pitcher and I hear "watch out for the curve" I'm throwing the heater! :)

Or maybe you throw it for a strike anyhow because the batter is now thinking you'll change to the heater.  :)

Or curve in the dirt because he can't hit it but he thinks he can.

Or a change-up.

Deception.

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Just at a sectional final U12 game in CT where one team was yelling "YADA", "YADA", "YADA" before every pitch, and while the pitcher was in the stretch.  If might not be illegal, but it is classless.

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On 7/23/2019 at 9:45 PM, BBF said:

Just at a sectional final U12 game in CT where one team was yelling "YADA", "YADA", "YADA" before every pitch, and while the pitcher was in the stretch.  If might not be illegal, but it is classless.

Hearing it once for the first time might be coincidental. I hear it a second time I'll shut that down.

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12U LL state finals game 2 

 

I had LF line and behind me was a kid with an air horn.  Every time his team would score .  WHAAAAAAA WHHAAAAAA.   a couple of loud bursts for about oh 1 second maybe.  Not too bad and thankfully he was not doing it directly at me.  Well about the 4th inning. His pitcher came set and stated to deliver the ball.  I hear WHAA.  The pitch went in and was a ball or strike I do not recall but I'm like OK do it one more time and Im calling time and there will be a bruhaha.  nothing thankfully was not blown again during that half of the inning.  I rolled back to the fence got my water and spoke to the DA for D1 told her he blows that again when a pitcher is winding up and I will toss him.  She was like Oh hell yeah but go warn him now.

So I walked over and asked him politely do not do that again when a pitcher is getting ready to throw or throwing.  he's ( a 13 yr old I would say someones brother or friend ) all like " I did not "  I said "Um yes I heard it Dont do it again or I will have to toss you from the park"  He turns looks at this girl and goes "YOU GOT ME IN TROUBLE"  she was blushing and giggling..   So yeah I figured it was a mistake on her part and she did not understand but I let him know HE was responsible as HE had the air horn.  He got my meaning and tone and was good the rest of the game. 

But yeah why do they sell those damn things anyway.

 

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On 7/9/2019 at 6:15 PM, Mister B said:

We got warned once for stealing signs, when a couple of our players told the batter to watch for the curveball, on a 2 strike count. (not a fan of that rule)

I agree with making sure the other team doesn't disrupt the pitcher. I also don't like when teams yell, "Trouble!" on a fly ball. 

 

I admit I got burned on this in another forum that I visit.  I am not familiar with LL rules and didn’t know they have an auto-eject rule.

The poster over there said a girl was ejected during a “televised” (streaming) game for stealing signs.  Might have been a Texas regional, if I remember correctly (which I wouldn’t bet on).

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@The Man in Blue, in regards to your LL auto-eject mention above

From the 2019 LL RIM -Rule 9.01

(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager, or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.

NOTE: The local league has the option to adopt this rule application. The stealing and relaying of signs to alert the batter of pitch selection and/or location is unsportsmanlike behavior. If, in the judgment of the umpire, this behavior is occurring, those responsible including any player(s), coach(es), and/or manager shall be ejected from the game.

 

When asked for clarification on the bold/underlined, Leagues may or may not use during "REGULAR" season. it was made clear that once the district tournaments start, this WILL be enforced, and not optional.

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On 7/23/2019 at 9:45 PM, BBF said:

Just at a sectional final U12 game in CT where one team was yelling "YADA", "YADA", "YADA" before every pitch, and while the pitcher was in the stretch.  If might not be illegal, but it is classless.

Did they mention the bisque?

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