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Gfoley4

Second step in windup

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Had a pitcher in junior legion (OBR based) game last week start in the standard windup position, take a step towards first base with the free foot, then move the pivot foot (all standard movements so far) then quickly touch his free foot to the ground and reset himself, then stride out for the pitch. I'm assuming this is illegal under 5.07(a) "The pitcher may not take a second step toward home plate with either foot or otherwise reset his pivot foot in his delivery of the pitch. If there is a runner, or runners, on base it is a balk under Rule 6.02(a); if the bases are unoccupied it is an illegal pitch under Rule 6.02(b)." ? Opposing coach didn't have an issue and I just let it slide in this low-stakes summerball game. Also would be interested to know if this is illegal under FED?

And as an aside, another ever see fielders wearing helmets? This pitcher was wearing a skullcap (helmet) instead of a hat. Didn't see to move around at all and wasn't a hinderance at all. He even wore it when moving to second base later in game. 

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2018 NFHS rule 1-5 ART. 5 . . . Defensive players are permitted to wear face/head protection in the field. If a pitcher or any defensive player wears face/head protection, its outer covering shall have a non-glare (not mirror-like) surface.

Also see 2019 case plays 1.5.5 A, B, and C.

2019-2020 NCAA rule 9-2h. Wear a garment with ragged, frayed or slit sleeves, or attach tape or other material of a color different from the uniform or glove to the glove, arms or clothing. The pitcher shall not wear another glove under the regular glove. If a pitcher wears a helmet, it must have a nonglossy finish. A pitcher shall not wear jewelry or clothing items that a batter or umpire considers distracting (e.g., chains, white logos, wrist bands, loose lacing on glove). Tattoo's on a pitcher's body that a batter or umpire consider distracting must be legally covered.

I cannot find any prohibition against the pitcher or any other player wearing a helmet on defense in OBR. The use of helmets is covered in 2019 OBR rule 3.08--

(a) All players shall use some type of protective helmet while at bat and while running the bases.

(b) All players in National Association Leagues shall wear a double ear-flap helmet while at bat.

(c) All Major League players must wear a single ear-flap helmet (or at the player’s option, a double ear-flap helmet).

(d) All catchers shall wear a catcher’s protective helmet and face mask while receiving a pitch.

(e) All base coaches shall wear a protective helmet while performing their duties.

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21 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

2018 NFHS rule 1-5 ART. 5 . . . Defensive players are permitted to wear face/head protection in the field. If a pitcher or any defensive player wears face/head protection, its outer covering shall have a non-glare (not mirror-like) surface.

Also see 2019 case plays 1.5.5 A, B, and C.

2019-2020 NCAA rule 9-2h. Wear a garment with ragged, frayed or slit sleeves, or attach tape or other material of a color different from the uniform or glove to the glove, arms or clothing. The pitcher shall not wear another glove under the regular glove. If a pitcher wears a helmet, it must have a nonglossy finish. A pitcher shall not wear jewelry or clothing items that a batter or umpire considers distracting (e.g., chains, white logos, wrist bands, loose lacing on glove). Tattoo's on a pitcher's body that a batter or umpire consider distracting must be legally covered.

I cannot find any prohibition against the pitcher or any other player wearing a helmet on defense in OBR. The use of helmets is covered in 2019 OBR rule 3.08--

(a) All players shall use some type of protective helmet while at bat and while running the bases.

(b) All players in National Association Leagues shall wear a double ear-flap helmet while at bat.

(c) All Major League players must wear a single ear-flap helmet (or at the player’s option, a double ear-flap helmet).

(d) All catchers shall wear a catcher’s protective helmet and face mask while receiving a pitch.

(e) All base coaches shall wear a protective helmet while performing their duties.

Thanks, anything for my primary question regarding the second step?

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I have seen defensive players wear helmets before.  Typically it has been a kid (or an adult) who had suffered some sort of previous head injury.

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9 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I have seen defensive players wear helmets before.  Typically it has been a kid (or an adult) who had suffered some sort of previous head injury.

Olerud

 

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18 hours ago, Gfoley4 said:

Thanks, anything for my primary question regarding the second step?

Sounds illegal by rule. Once he lifts his non-pivot foot a second time, he needs to deliver the pitch. Advantage:OFFENSE. 

FED: During delivery, he may lift his non-pivot foot in a step forward, a step sideways, or in a step backward and a step forward, but he shall not otherwise lift either foot. 

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19 hours ago, Gfoley4 said:

Thanks, anything for my primary question regarding the second step?

Curiosity Question since we obviously have no video: Did he essentially toe tap his free foot in the exact same spot where his foot landed during his initial step toward first base?  To clarify, he only created two "footprints" on the ground with his free foot before releasing the ball?

Or did he reset himself/(catch his balance) with his free foot at another point on the ground?

Just trying to visualize it a bit more.

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3 hours ago, RBIbaseball said:

Curiosity Question since we obviously have no video: Did he essentially toe tap his free foot in the exact same spot where his foot landed during his initial step toward first base?  To clarify, he only created two "footprints" on the ground with his free foot before releasing the ball?

Or did he reset himself/(catch his balance) with his free foot at another point on the ground?

Just trying to visualize it a bit more.

well I guess 4 footprints for the free foot total. One time pre-movement (perpendicular to rubber), one time a step off the rubber towards first base, then the illegal step parallel to the rubber (almost like where his would be if he came set in the stretch), then a fourth footprint for the stride out to the plate.

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2 hours ago, Gfoley4 said:

well I guess 4 footprints for the free foot total. One time pre-movement (perpendicular to rubber), one time a step off the rubber towards first base, then the illegal step parallel to the rubber (almost like where his would be if he came set in the stretch), then a fourth footprint for the stride out to the plate.

I would say that the 3rd bolded line (below) definitely takes care of that explanation then, as well as the comment from 5.07(a) that you quoted originally. If it was more of a toe touch in place, my point was gonna be that one one could have made an argument that it was a natural move associated with 'his' delivery (if he was consistent),was neither a step forward or a step backwards, and therefor legal. Just my interpretation, but I'm new to this so take it with a grain of salt.

 

From OBR 5.07... From this position [windup position] any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.

 

 

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From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (Chapter 16, p. 137):

Windup Position Terminal Stage (Motion to Pitch) (5.07 a Comment)

In the motion to pitch, the pitcher’s…free foot may (but not must) step once backward or sideways (heel first), and must step once (and only once) forward.

In the motion to pitch, the pitcher’s pivot foot may make only one step to become better situated for the pitch (optional) and may not then be reset.

From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.19, p. 103):

A pitcher may not take a second step toward home plate with either foot or otherwise reset his pivot foot in his delivery of the pitch. If there is a runner, or runners, on base it is a balk under Rule 6.02(a); if the bases are unoccupied it is an illegal pitch under Rule 6.02(b).

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If you are standing still and you pick up your foot and put it back where it was in the same spot, is that a step? According to dictionary.com it is not. Even so, every rule quoted talks about stepping in a specific direction. So playing devil's advocate, I still say the rule doesn't stop a player from a sort of toe tap or reset in place with his free foot, as long as it is a consistent part of his natural pitching motion.

Am I reading between the lines too much? My background leads me to be over analytical at times, so perhaps I should read with a little more spirit.

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A pitcher cannot pick up his free foot by rule except in his actual delivery of the pitch. The relevant rule has already been posted twice but here it is again. I have bolded the part of the rule that I think is being overlooked. The pitcher, because he is standing still, cannot just lift his foot in place even if that action does not meet the dictionary meaning of the word step. He shall not raise either foot except when he is actually delivering the pitch.

2019 OBR rule 5.07(a)(1) The Windup Position The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate and the other foot free. From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.

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47 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

A pitcher cannot pick up his free foot by rule except in his actual delivery of the pitch. The relevant rule has already been posted twice but here it is again. I have bolded the part of the rule that I think is being overlooked. The pitcher, because he is standing still, cannot just lift his foot in place even if that action does not meet the dictionary meaning of the word step. He shall not raise either foot except when he is actually delivering the pitch.

2019 OBR rule 5.07(a)(1) The Windup Position The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate and the other foot free. From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.

I guess where I'm confused is " except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter". The way that reads is all the steps (one step backward, one step forward) are part of his "actual delivery". I am thinking of an extra toe tap being part of his natural movement/delivery and part of his "actual delivery of the ball to the batter".  

That's where I am confused, but again it seems as though I am reading between the lines and not taking it at face value.

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18 hours ago, RBIbaseball said:

 as long as it is a consistent part of his natural pitching motion.

 

If it's illegal, it doesn't matter if it's consistent.

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8 hours ago, noumpere said:

If it's illegal, it doesn't matter if it's consistent.

I understand that. I guess I was just being difficult with my interpretation/definition of what a step is.

After sleeping on it, I now realize what @Senor Azul was trying to drive home and how my argument was irrelevant. Sometimes quoting the rules doesn't always get my brain to understand, lol. My fault.

I'll stop now. :) Thanks everyone.

 

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