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Advancement of Runners

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Guest Jose

Runners on 1st and 2nd.  Runner from 2nd did not try to advance on a line drive which was not caught.  No Infield Fly was ruled.  The infielder threw to 2nd who tagged the base but not the runner.  Is the lead runner out for standing on a base that did not belong to him?  He was touching the base at the time of the force play.

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Once the defense tagged second base, R1 was out on the force.  Since R2 is no longer forced, he is safe when tagged while standing on second base.

Had the defense tagged the runner first, he would be out.  then if the defense stepped on second base, R1 would also be out.

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21 minutes ago, Adrian411 said:

Ok.  I was wondering if R2 actually touching the base at the time of the force out meant anything.  It's clear now.

Thanks for your answer

as noumpere pointed out, the order in which the defense acts is paramount on this call

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10 minutes ago, stkjock said:

as noumpere pointed out, the order in which the defense acts is paramount on this call

But only if the runner is tagged.

The runner was never tagged so nothing else really matters.

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R2's foot being on 2B at the time a force play was being executed against R1 at the same base (2B) is where I got confused.  He never attempted to break for 3rd.

I thought they were both out even though R2 never got tagged.

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On 6/24/2019 at 10:41 AM, Adrian411 said:

R2's foot being on 2B at the time a force play was being executed against R1 at the same base (2B) is where I got confused.  He never attempted to break for 3rd.

I thought they were both out even though R2 never got tagged.

To get the forced runner out you have to tag the runner or the base he is forced to, not the base he was/is on.  Neither happened.

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13 minutes ago, flyingron said:

Even little leaguers know this.   If you're trying for a double play via force out, you need to throw the ball to third then to second.

No - you can tag R2 then tag the base.

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1 minute ago, flyingron said:

Then it would not be "via force out."    

 

Yes - it would.

5.09 Making an Out

(b) Retiring a Runner

(6) He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next
base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the
batter becoming a runner.

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You don't have to tag the base the runner is going to on a "force out" you can tag the runner. 

So, you tag R2 and he is out because he is "forced" to vacate second then you step on second base for the force out on R1.  You could then throw to first to try for the triple play!

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2 hours ago, flyingron said:

OK, agreed.   I see what you are saying now.   The fielder needs to be off the bag for that to work.

 

No.   Once the batter becomes a runner R1 is "forced" to advance.  Then, because of that R2 is "forced".   Tagging R2, no matter where he is (before he reaches third base), is a force out, while he is in that "forced" status.   Only if B/R or R1 gets put out first, or if he reaches third base, does R2 lose the forced status.

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Why was anybody forced once the line drive was caught (OP), assuming it was in the air, of course? R1 wasn't forced anywhere, unless he tagged up at 1B and went for second and even then, he'd have to be tagged.

I obviously missed something. Y'all lost me.

(Never mind. NOT caught would be the key here. :D )

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28 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

No.   Once the batter becomes a runner R1 is "forced" to advance.  Then, because of that R2 is "forced".   Tagging R2, no matter where he is (before he reaches third base), is a force out, while he is in that "forced" status.   Only if B/R or R1 gets put out first, or if he reaches third base, does R2 lose the forced status.

I think flyingron was envisioning it as the fielder was already in contact with the bag when the fielder received the ball and then tagged R2 who was standing there ... thus the bag was tagged (force on R1) before the tag on R2.

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31 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

I think flyingron was envisioning it as the fielder was already in contact with the bag when the fielder received the ball and then tagged R2 who was standing there ... thus the bag was tagged (force on R1) before the tag on R2.

No, flyingron clearly understands how to force out R2 (as shown in his first post three hours prior) - he simply didn't understand that "force" has nothing to do with tagging the base.

I however misread runner when he said fielder in his followup.    He was confirming that if F4, for example, happened to be on the bag when he caught the ball then R1 would be out and it would negate the force on R2 - meaning R2 would now be safe on the bag, which is right.

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