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Guest Doug DeBord

Balk or no balk?

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Guest Doug DeBord

Pitcher from the stretch fakes a throw to third with foot on rubber with third occupied, but does not throw it.  Is this a balk?  Umpire told us a pitcher can fake a throw to second and third.  I think he is wrong.?

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What rule set? There are variations.

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This is a balk if playing under official baseball rules (obr). It is not a balk in NCAA or Fed (high school rules). So the simple answer is "it depends".

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47 minutes ago, pnewton said:

This is a balk if playing under official baseball rules (obr). It is not a balk in NCAA or Fed (high school rules). So the simple answer is "it depends".

NCAA actually changed their rule for this year I believe. No more faking to third from the rubber. High School is still a holdover.

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Until MLB/OBR changed it a few years ago I had heard for 30 years that it should be changed (and I agreed), specifically the fake to third throw to first, but at the same time I always asked, and still ask, has anyone ever seen it work?   In all my years through Little League, Babe Ruth League, men's leagues, not to mention however many games I may have watched on TV...I don't know if I ever saw it catch the guy off first.    Seems like it's a rule more about speeding up the game rather than deceiving the runner.

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22 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Until MLB/OBR changed it a few years ago I had heard for 30 years that it should be changed (and I agreed), specifically the fake to third throw to first, but at the same time I always asked, and still ask, has anyone ever seen it work?   In all my years through Little League, Babe Ruth League, men's leagues, not to mention however many games I may have watched on TV...I don't know if I ever saw it catch the guy off first.    Seems like it's a rule more about speeding up the game rather than deceiving the runner.

I’ve seen the “wheel” move work and not be balked. 

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49 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Until MLB/OBR changed it a few years ago I had heard for 30 years that it should be changed (and I agreed), specifically the fake to third throw to first, but at the same time I always asked, and still ask, has anyone ever seen it work?   In all my years through Little League, Babe Ruth League, men's leagues, not to mention however many games I may have watched on TV...I don't know if I ever saw it catch the guy off first.    Seems like it's a rule more about speeding up the game rather than deceiving the runner.

Actually 

 

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I’ve seen it work. As a matter of fact I saw it work this year in a varsity high school game. R1 started on initial movement and got caught. He gets tagged, looks at me and says” Isn’t that a balk?”  

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11 hours ago, Richvee said:

I’ve seen it work. As a matter of fact I saw it work this year in a varsity high school game. R1 started on initial movement and got caught. He gets tagged, looks at me and says” Isn’t that a balk?”  

If it is my check is not correct :D

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17 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Until MLB/OBR changed it a few years ago I had heard for 30 years that it should be changed (and I agreed), specifically the fake to third throw to first, but at the same time I always asked, and still ask, has anyone ever seen it work?   In all my years through Little League, Babe Ruth League, men's leagues, not to mention however many games I may have watched on TV...I don't know if I ever saw it catch the guy off first.    Seems like it's a rule more about speeding up the game rather than deceiving the runner.

For the first time ever for me, it worked in a 13U tourney game last Saturday, believe it or not.. OBR rules EXCEPT FED FPSR and fake to third is legal... R1,R3.. Pitcher steps to third and fakes, R1 started his steal of 2nd on first move, obviously to draw a throw for a possible delayed steal of home... Defense yells out he's going, pitcher turns from facing third and throws to second for the put out of R1.. R3 does not attempt to steal home... Only time I saw it work!

BONUS: in the SAME game, with 2 outs, I had a swinging strike three at a pitch that hits the lefty batters' back leg and rolls in fair territory up the 3rd base line.. I yell out "Time!!!!... he swung, he's out!.... it hit him, he offered, he's out!" - and NO yelling or protesting from anyone, not even the parents.. Kind of a confused "what just happened?" pause from everyone, then the teams go about changing sides... 

DOUBLE BONUS: in the SAME game, I am PU obviously, no one on, 2 man crew, partner in A, shot down right field line, he goes out, I let him know I've got the runner, RF doesn't make the catch, ball bounces around, I follow BR around to 3rd, hear my partner say he's got the plate, and they wave the BR around third... perfect relay throw and my partner has a legit play at the plate OUT call as BU... A MEMORABLE 13U game.. I am officially recharged!

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1 hour ago, BobUmp said:

For the first time ever for me, it worked in a 13U tourney game last Saturday, believe it or not.. OBR rules EXCEPT FED FPSR and fake to third is legal... R1,R3.. Pitcher steps to third and fakes, R1 started his steal of 2nd on first move, obviously to draw a throw for a possible delayed steal of home... Defense yells out he's going, pitcher turns from facing third and throws to second for the put out of R1.. R3 does not attempt to steal home... Only time I saw it work!

BONUS: in the SAME game, with 2 outs, I had a swinging strike three at a pitch that hits the lefty batters' back leg and rolls in fair territory up the 3rd base line.. I yell out "Time!!!!... he swung, he's out!.... it hit him, he offered, he's out!" - and NO yelling or protesting from anyone, not even the parents.. Kind of a confused "what just happened?" pause from everyone, then the teams go about changing sides... 

DOUBLE BONUS: in the SAME game, I am PU obviously, no one on, 2 man crew, partner in A, shot down right field line, he goes out, I let him know I've got the runner, RF doesn't make the catch, ball bounces around, I follow BR around to 3rd, hear my partner say he's got the plate, and they wave the BR around third... perfect relay throw and my partner has a legit play at the plate OUT call as BU... A MEMORABLE 13U game.. I am officially recharged!

Don't you love it when a plan comes together?

Had my first triple play call this year in a game I was doing solo. That felt good.

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