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12U USSSA Tournament.  Top of the 6th.  HT pitcher has pitched the previous 5 innings and comes out at the top of 6 and throws a couple of warm up pitches.  At that time HTHC comes out and motions for the 3rd baseman to come in and pitch.  I am BU and see this happen and PU and I are discussing which one of us is going to go and tell the coach that his original pitcher has to throw to the first batter of the inning.  Before we could do that, I hear, "He can't do that. You do realize that the kid that just went to 3rd already took two warm up pitches?"  I turned at this thinking it was a coach and see someone that has not been on the field before this time.  I asked him "Are you a coach?" He replied to me, "No, I'm just trying to make sure you are doing your job." I looked at the VTHC and said "He has to go."  VTHC looked at him and told me he had no idea who the guy even is.  Mystery guy then tells me he is (insert local high school association here) umpire and that I needed to do my job.  I immediately ejected him and told him to leave.  He yelled about me not doing my job and I needed to learn the rules.

Now here is the really weird thing.  The mystery guy did not have anything to do with the current game we were in, he was waiting to watch his nephew in the next game.  My question is this, why would any umpire at any level think it is their responsibility to step onto a field that they were not in any official capacity to loudly tell another umpire that they are doing something wrong?  I also told the head coach for the next game that he was not allowed to be at the field for then next game either since it was one of his fans that physically walked onto the field. That head coach had no problem enforcing it. 

Not that it matters, HTHC was already on his way over to tell me that his original pitcher was injured and that's why they made the change mid warm up.  VTHC was fine with the explanation.

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Im good with the HTHC pulling him for an injury, However why was he then stuck at 3rd base?

If its anything that will keep him from pitching unless its a split finger/ blister . I would tell him bench. unless he went to 1st base, I might overlook that.

Really really odd that umpire.

 

I have never said anything to any other umpire other than hope you have a good game and stay hydrated.  I did once give a kid my counter because he did not have one. I did also ask same kid why he was not wearing shin guards.

His reply  I have done this a few times already and dont use them..  He's wearing a mask, a catchers CP which is a little league one,  he was wearing a cup thank God.  sigh.. 

  

 

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That's... Bizarre. Why would anyone ever think it was okay to March out on the field like that? Is he trying to pick a fight for the next game???

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Whoa!  All a pitcher has to do is disposition one batter before he can be replaced.  Sounds to me like he had dispositioned more than 15 batters, having pitched 5 innings!  So he can be replaced any time.  There are huge amounts of bogosity in this situation!  The defensive manager was acting well within the rules.

Mike

Las Vegas

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43 minutes ago, Vegas_Ump said:

Whoa!  All a pitcher has to do is disposition one batter before he can be replaced.  Sounds to me like he had dispositioned more than 15 batters, having pitched 5 innings!  So he can be replaced any time.  There are huge amounts of bogosity in this situation!  The defensive manager was acting well within the rules.

Mike

Las Vegas

Depending on the specific rules code, a returning pitcher who throws a warm-up pitch must *also* pitch to one batter in that new inning (with some exceptions).  It's a relatively (5-7 years?) rules change to prevent a pitcher from taking his warmups and then having the manager change pitchers -- all to give the reliever some additional time in the bullpen.

48 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Im good with the HTHC pulling him for an injury, However why was he then stuck at 3rd base?

If its anything that will keep him from pitching unless its a split finger/ blister . I would tell him bench. unless he went to 1st base, I might overlook that.

 

Forcing the player to leave the game or play first is not part of the rule (absent some local specification).  Do NOT insert yourself here ("that's what she said.")--let the manager deal with it and play the kid t third base.

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4 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Forcing the player to leave the game or play first is not part of the rule (absent some local specification).  Do NOT insert yourself here ("that's what she said.")--let the manager deal with it and play the kid t third base.

So there is no rule in HS that if a kid is removed for injury he is removed from the game?

EDIT

 

OK So LL 3.05 (b) If the pitcher is replaced....  yada yada....  injury or illness, which in the UiC judgement , incapacitates the pitcher from further play as a pitcher.

SO yeah I guess they do not have to be removed.. even in LL ok odd but ok..

 

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3 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

So there is no rule in HS that if a kid is removed for injury he is removed from the game?

 

No (unless he's exhibiting signs consistent with a concussion -- in which case the state-specific rules apply).  And, even if he is, he can return if he was a starter (again, with the concussion exception).

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1 minute ago, noumpere said:

No (unless he's exhibiting signs consistent with a concussion -- in which case the state-specific rules apply).  And, even if he is, he can return if he was a starter (again, with the concussion exception).

I was finishing my edit when you replied.  Astounds me but eh  here I was thinking we were supposed to be looking out for the kids safety too..

 

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I work as a UIC and take a lot of pride in knowing the rules. I also know when an ump is not where he should be etc. When my son plays a tournament at other complexes and we get really bad umps I don’t say one word. Parents and coaches ask me to but nope not going to be that guy. 

The worst one I ever had was a basketball game. I got a 2nd year referee with me for a 8th grade game. Partner calls a foul and guy in the stands starts running his mouth and screaming at the ref. I walk towards him to inbound the ball and this POS is wearing a referee jersey. He says to me your partner is horrible and you need to either take control or be held accountable. I was furious that a fellow ref would do that so I said take the ref jersey off, he said screw you so I ejected him. Long story short he had the next game until I called my assignor at halftime. 

May the end of the day we are a brotherhood. 

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1 hour ago, noumpere said:

Depending on the specific rules code, a returning pitcher who throws a warm-up pitch must *also* pitch to one batter in that new inning (with some exceptions).  It's a relatively (5-7 years?) rules change to prevent a pitcher from taking his warmups and then having the manager change pitchers -- all to give the reliever some additional time in the bullpen.

Not the case in OBR, correct?

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2 minutes ago, johnpatrick said:

Not the case in OBR, correct?

It's true for OBR as well

5.10 (i)

If a pitcher who is already in the game crosses the foul line on his way to take his place on the pitcher’s plate to start an inning, he shall pitch to the first batter until such batter is put out or reaches first base, unless the batter is substituted for, or the pitcher sustains an injury or illness which, in the judgment of the umpire-in-chief, incapacitates him from pitching. If the pitcher ends the previous inning on base or at bat and does not return to the dugout after the inning is completed, the pitcher is not required to pitch to the first batter of the inning until he makes contact with the pitcher’s plate to begin his warm-up pitches.

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16 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

It's true for OBR as well

5.10 (i)

If a pitcher who is already in the game crosses the foul line on his way to take his place on the pitcher’s plate to start an inning, he shall pitch to the first batter until such batter is put out or reaches first base, unless the batter is substituted for, or the pitcher sustains an injury or illness which, in the judgment of the umpire-in-chief, incapacitates him from pitching. If the pitcher ends the previous inning on base or at bat and does not return to the dugout after the inning is completed, the pitcher is not required to pitch to the first batter of the inning until he makes contact with the pitcher’s plate to begin his warm-up pitches.

Hmmmph...I don't remember reading that.  Thanks.

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There is no 5.10 (i) in the LL Rule Book!

I had this issue in a tournament back in Virginia.  As long as the current pitcher has dispositioned one batter (in the entire game) he may be substituted for in any inning later--even if it's the warmup period of the next inning.

Little League only as far as I can tell!

Mike

Vegas

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On 6/17/2019 at 1:06 PM, Vegas_Ump said:

Whoa!  All a pitcher has to do is disposition one batter before he can be replaced.  Sounds to me like he had dispositioned more than 15 batters, having pitched 5 innings!  So he can be replaced any time.  There are huge amounts of bogosity in this situation!  The defensive manager was acting well within the rules.

Mike

Las Vegas

In OBR if the pitcher crosses the foul line he has to pitch to one batter.  Changed "a couple" of years age.

 

5.10 (i) If a pitcher who is already in the game crosses the foul line on
his way to take his place on the pitcher’s plate to start an
inning, he shall pitch to the first batter until such batter is put
out or reaches first base, unless

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On 7/20/2019 at 12:34 AM, Rich Ives said:

In OBR if the pitcher crosses the foul line he has to pitch to one batter.  Changed "a couple" of years age.

 

5.10 (i) If a pitcher who is already in the game crosses the foul line on
his way to take his place on the pitcher’s plate to start an
inning, he shall pitch to the first batter until such batter is put
out or reaches first base, unless

Couldn't he be headed to another defensive position? Or would a different pitcher have been announced in that case? Every defensive player has to cross the foul line on their way out to their position.

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On 7/19/2019 at 11:34 PM, Rich Ives said:

In OBR if the pitcher crosses the foul line he has to pitch to one batter.  Changed "a couple" of years age.

 

5.10 (i) If a pitcher who is already in the game crosses the foul line on
his way to take his place on the pitcher’s plate
to start an
inning, he shall pitch to the first batter until such batter is put
out or reaches first base, unless

 

8 hours ago, Mussgrass said:

Couldn't he be headed to another defensive position? Or would a different pitcher have been announced in that case? Every defensive player has to cross the foul line on their way out to their position.

Umpire judgment.  In MLB (and that's who the rules are written for), it's obvious nearly 100% of the time.  At levels where they "borrow" OBR, it's probably only 98%,

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On 6/17/2019 at 11:44 AM, StrikeToWin said:

12U USSSA Tournament. 

Unfortunate that much drama exists at the youth level where the volunteer coaches are out there because they probably couldn't get anybody else and just want to coach their kid. 

Some things in the game just shouldn't matter that much. This is one of those things. 

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