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johnnyg08

Runner Lane Interference

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16 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Are we sure that's not what happened when they conferenced? There is nothing showing Gibson calling RLI. So when they get together and U1 gets the off the base info and agrees to reverse his call to safe Gibson then says I had RLI since he was safe.

Didn't this also go to replay? 

 

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27 minutes ago, Tborze said:

 

Looking for clarification. 

OBR-RLI is TOP in this situation. Runners return. 

FED-TOI, always. So R3 scores in this situation in FED. 

?

OBR: 

"PENALTY FOR INTERFERENCE:
The runner is out and the ball is dead.
If the umpire declares the batter, batter-runner, or a runner out
for interference, all other runners shall return to the last base
that was in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the
time of the interference, unless otherwise provided by these
rules.
In the event the batter-runner has not reached first base, all runners
shall return to the base last occupied at the time of the pitch;
provided, however, if during an intervening play at the plate
with less than two outs a runner scores, and then the batter-runner
is called out for interference outside the three-foot lane, the
runner is safe and the run shall count."

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38 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Didn't this also go to replay? 

 

Courtesy of my MLBTV subscription, no replay. Gibson trails the play and watches the runner and is about to call it after the runner passes 1B when he sees U1 call the out. Gibson then stops raising his hands. But he then points to U1 and calls time. That point may have been an acknowledgement that U1 was not calling the runner out on the throw but on the RLI. CCS allegation that Gibson's call was prior to the catch at 1B is not correct but his judgment of RLI probably took place before that. The conference then was either we both had RLI or I had RLI and are you reversing your safe call because we all saw F3 off the bag. I'm thinking that U1 did not call out on such an obvious off the bag. Hyde's beef was that Gibson didn't call it right away. MLB will clear up everything for you at the press conference with the umps. Can't find an emoticon for my previous sentence.

RLI 1.jpg

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32 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

MLB will clear up everything for you at the press conference with the umps

:rollinglaugh:

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1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

MLB will clear up everything for you at the press conference with the umps.

Once again, I just don't get why MLB is so averse to having umps communicate their rulings to the spectators, when "odd" plays occur.

NFL and NHL seem to get along fine doing it.

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35 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

 

Once again, I just don't get why MLB is so averse to having umps communicate their rulings to the spectators, when "odd" plays occur.

NFL and NHL seem to get along fine doing it.

My guess is that 99.9% of the people there wouldn't understand anyway. 

Same reason why in our games, we can be spot on, but if they don't understand, they think we're wrong. 

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Will having a double bag at 1B eliminate most of these problems?

 

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10 minutes ago, urout17 said:

Will having a double bag at 1B eliminate most of these problems?

 

No. What would eliminate the problem would be getting rid of the rule or enforcing it without requiring interference. If runner is not in the lane at 45’ call him out. But that rule would then have to define where the throw was coming from. Better to get rid of the rule. 

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55 minutes ago, urout17 said:

Will having a double bag at 1B eliminate most of these problems?

 

Even rule sets with the double bag have the running lane, and RLI rules.

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30 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Even rule sets with the double bag have the running lane, and RLI rules.

And you have a whole new set of issues surrounding who can / must use which bag when.

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1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

 If runner is not in the lane at 45’ call him out. 

And eliminate rounding to continue on to 2B?  Give me a break.

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33 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

And eliminate rounding to continue on to 2B?  Give me a break.

You would have to specify the location of throw which is, as is now, behind the runner and probably fish out unintended consequences in rewriting the rule. But my first choice is elimination. But CCS is now advocating a call before a safe/out determination at 1B due to replay. 

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23 hours ago, noumpere said:

And you have a whole new set of issues surrounding who can / must use which bag when.

I've had multiple travel coaches try to tell me "well but on a dropped third strike, defense can use the orange base and the batter uses the white base".

That's...that's not how this works.

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39 minutes ago, Thatsnotyou said:

I've had multiple travel coaches try to tell me "well but on a dropped third strike, defense can use the orange base and the batter uses the white base".

That's...that's not how this works.

Actually, yes, in some codes it is - if the throw is coming from that side of first base.   I've seen codes say any live ball in first base foul (Official Rules of Softball), and others that say only dropped third strikes in first base foul.  It's another "protection" rule where if the ball ends up on the first base foul side the defense can take the orange bag to prevent the throw from intersecting with the runner.

I've also played in ASA tournaments that allowed F3 to take either side and then the runner needs to take the other.

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1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Actually, yes, in some codes it is - if the throw is coming from that side of first base.   I've seen codes say any live ball in first base foul (Official Rules of Softball), and others that say only dropped third strikes in first base foul.  It's another "protection" rule where if the ball ends up on the first base foul side the defense can take the orange bag to prevent the throw from intersecting with the runner.

I've also played in ASA tournaments that allowed F3 to take either side and then the runner needs to take the other.

I'm strictly going by baseball rules, specifically fed rules. I don't know/work softball, so I guess you have a point there.

Anyway, to me it seems messy. What if the runner doesn't know what side the throw is coming on? Now they are going to the white base, RLI. Does the defense have to "declare" the side and the runner listen and adjust?

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On 6/19/2019 at 1:30 PM, noumpere said:

And you have a whole new set of issues surrounding who can / must use which bag when.

 

2 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

I've had multiple travel coaches try to tell me "well but on a dropped third strike, defense can use the orange base and the batter uses the white base".

That's...that's not how this works.

 

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Actually, yes, in some codes it is

 

3 minutes ago, Thatsnotyou said:

I'm strictly going by baseball rules, specifically fed rules.

 

Exhibit A.

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19 minutes ago, Thatsnotyou said:

I'm strictly going by baseball rules, specifically fed rules. I don't know/work softball, so I guess you have a point there.

Anyway, to me it seems messy. What if the runner doesn't know what side the throw is coming on? Now they are going to the white base, RLI. Does the defense have to "declare" the side and the runner listen and adjust?

Oh don't get me wrong...I hate it and in many ways it defeats the purpose of the safety bag.

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8 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

What if the runner doesn't know what side the throw is coming on? 

You look at the fielder at 1B and see where he is setting up.

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16 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

You look at the fielder at 1B and see where he is setting up.

And what if that changes after the fielder takes an initial position, or changes position late?

I guess I just don't understand why the onus is on the runner to do something abnormal.

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21 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

And what if that changes after the fielder takes an initial position, or changes position late?

I guess I just don't understand why the onus is on the runner to do something abnormal.

Then you adapt too

And if the B-R is in the lane he can't be guilty of interference

 

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On 6/21/2019 at 3:06 PM, Thatsnotyou said:

And what if that changes after the fielder takes an initial position, or changes position late?

I guess I just don't understand why the onus is on the runner to do something abnormal.

The fielder is adapting to where the ball is being thrown.

The runner can always see the fielder in front of him.  Unless it's literally the last step there is rarely a problem.

The point is, the fielder has the entire bag at their disposal and so does the runner.

And, it doesn't mean the runner is penalized if they collide...it just means the fielder is not (usually).

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On 6/18/2019 at 11:13 AM, johnnyg08 said:

By rule, in FED, you would be correct, which is crazy, but FED is TOI

I disagree.  RLI interference is TOP due to the fact the BR did not reach safely to first base, same as FPSR interference.  In fact, it's the same penalty, under the same section of the rule book.

8-4: "Runner is Out"  Art. 2  a. - Penalty:  The runner is out.  Interference is called and the ball is dead immediately.  On a force-play slide with less than 2 outs, the runner is declared out, as is the BR.  Runners shall return to the bases occupied at the time of the pitch.........(This pertains to all interference occurring before BR reaches 1st base)

Our association in Iowa discussed this rule in detail and was told this wording applied to both scenarios, FPSR (which was the emphasis of discussion) and RLI, because they are in the same section.  Chalk it up to another badly worded FED Rulebook issue.  

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28 minutes ago, humanbackstop19 said:

I disagree.  RLI interference is TOP due to the fact the BR did not reach safely to first base, same as FPSR interference.  In fact, it's the same penalty, under the same section of the rule book.

8-4: "Runner is Out"  Art. 2  a. - Penalty:  The runner is out.  Interference is called and the ball is dead immediately.  On a force-play slide with less than 2 outs, the runner is declared out, as is the BR.  Runners shall return to the bases occupied at the time of the pitch.........(This pertains to all interference occurring before BR reaches 1st base)

Our association in Iowa discussed this rule in detail and was told this wording applied to both scenarios, FPSR (which was the emphasis of discussion) and RLI, because they are in the same section.  Chalk it up to another badly worded FED Rulebook issue.  

Iowa would be incorrect. Only FPSR is TOP:

 

"2007 Interps: SITUATION 5: With (a) one out or (b) two outs, the visiting team has a runner on third in the top of the seventh. The game is tied 2-2. R1, on third, gets a great jump and easily scores on a suicide bunt. After R1 has scored, F2 picks up the ball and throws to first in an attempt to get B3 out. B3 is out of the running lane and is hit by F2's throw. Does the run by R1 count? RULING: B3 is out for interference. In (a), R1's run counts because he scored prior to the interference by B3. Had the interference by B3 occurred before R1 crossed the plate, R1 would be returned to third base, the base he occupied at the time of the interference. In (b), R1's run would not count as the third out occurred by B3 before he touched first base. (8-4-1g, 9-1-1a)"

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