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Guest coach nb

is this scenario a stolen base?

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Guest coach nb

hi - here is the scenario

Runners on 1st and 3rd,  the pitcher is on the mound, on the rubber. 

Runner from 1st runs to 2nd base, pitcher allows it and doesn't move or reset from his position (rec league game).  the runner is now established on 2nd base and takes a lead from that base.  

The pitch is finally delivered and fouled back

the umpire sends the player back to first base, citing a continuation type of rule whereby the 'stolen base' did not occur because the play never completed until the foul ball. 

was the ump correct?  

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If the runner acquired second base before the pitcher began his/her pitching motion then the runner stays on second after the foul ball.  If the pitcher started his/her pitching motion prior to the runner reaching second the runner is returned to first on the foul ball.

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If you are correct that the pitching motion didn't even start until after R1 reached 2B, then the umpire was incorrect.

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And, if the batter had hit a pop fly that was caught the runner would only need to tag up to second base...same conditions apply.   "Time of pitch" is defined by when the pitcher starts his motion.

And on the semantics side - for the purposes of scoring it's not a "stolen" base.  R1 achieved second base on defensive indifference.

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31 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

And on the semantics side - for the purposes of scoring it's not a "stolen" base.  R1 achieved second base on defensive indifference.

Unless you're the runner's Mom.  ;)

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2019 OBR rule 9.07(g) The Official Scorer shall not score a stolen base when a runner advances solely because of the defensive team’s indifference to the runner’s advance. The Official Scorer shall score such a play as a fielder’s choice.

Rule 9.07(g) Comment: The scorer shall consider, in judging whether the defensive team has been indifferent to a runner’s advance, the totality of the circumstances, including the inning and score of the game, whether the defensive team had held the runner on base, whether the pitcher had made any pickoff attempts on that runner before the runner’s advance, whether the fielder ordinarily expected to cover the base to which the runner advanced made a move to cover such base, whether the defensive team had a legitimate strategic motive to not contest the runner’s advance or whether the defensive team might be trying impermissibly to deny the runner credit for a stolen base. For example, with runners on first and third bases, the Official Scorer should ordinarily credit a stolen base when the runner on first advances to second, if, in the scorer’s judgment, the defensive team had a legitimate strategic motive—namely, preventing the runner on third base from scoring on the throw to second base—not to contest the runner’s advance to second base. The Official Scorer may conclude that the defensive team is impermissibly trying to deny a runner credit for a stolen base if, for example, the defensive team fails to defend the advance of a runner approaching a league or career record or a league statistical title.

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From the 2014 PBUC (section 6.7, p. 58): 

A runner who advances while the pitcher is in contact with the rubber is considered to occupy the base last touched at the time the pitcher initiates his actual pitching motion to the batter. The pitching motion is defined as any movement which commits the pitcher to the batter.

As long as the pitcher is not committed to pitch, a runner may advance and is considered to occupy the last base touched at the time the pitcher initiates his actual delivery to the batter.

The preliminary motion known as the stretch is not considered the start of the pitching motion.

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Guest coach nb
7 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

What level of play ?

High School League Baseball Rules apply

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