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dumbdumb

Needs to be addressed for all levels

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This issue should be addressed so no umpires have to get involved.

Not saying right or wrong, just make all levels decide (Heads of all Organizations), whether this is all right or not for LL, Travel Ball, Babe Ruth, Connie Mack, Pony, Colt, etc, Middle School, High School and NCAA.

 

https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmatter/news/umpires-kick-coaches-out-because-they-are-cops-and-had-guns-when-in-uniform-tkhjMm3Bo060iBC0e3OT6A/

 

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1 hour ago, dumbdumb said:

This issue should be addressed so no umpires have to get involved.

Not saying right or wrong, just make all levels decide (Heads of all Organizations), whether this is all right or not for LL, Travel Ball, Babe Ruth, Connie Mack, Pony, Colt, etc, Middle School, High School and NCAA.

 

https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmatter/news/umpires-kick-coaches-out-because-they-are-cops-and-had-guns-when-in-uniform-tkhjMm3Bo060iBC0e3OT6A/

 

It is absolutely inappropriate for an armed person to be acting as a coach.

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We have had a few officers as managers/coaches.  They have always locked their guns in their vehicles.

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Little League Regulation XIV (e) prohibits firearms on the field.

And I am saying--that's the right call.

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If playing under FED rules, you’re out of uniform. 

Anyway, I find it ridiculous that they think they need a gun on a field. It would make me uncomfortable as an umpire, so I can only imagine how kids would feel (whether they speak up or not). 

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Just now, Thatsnotyou said:

If playing under FED rules, you’re out of uniform. 

Anyway, I find it ridiculous that they think they need a gun on a field. It would make me uncomfortable as an umpire, so I can only imagine how kids would feel (whether they speak up or not). 

I wouldn't allow a coach to have a bat with them if they were discussing something with me. This is even more of an issue.

Even putting that aside, there's an issue of perception of someone potentially using authority or the threat of force to influence what happens on the field, whether actual or not.

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Asking that they not coach in their on-duty attire seems reasonable, both from a league and LE Dept. POV. If I'm management in LE, it makes my dept. look horrible if my officers are losing their cool at a kids sporting event of all places. I absolutely agree that having an LEO who is clearly invested in the success of one side is a time bomb. This isn't to disparage LEOs as a group, but we already hear of cases where LEOs acting in blatant favor of one side in a sporting event have led to major issues. Simply asking that they not wear their uniform while coaching seems like the best and most universally palatable solution.

-BR

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5 hours ago, Matt said:

I wouldn't allow a coach to have a bat with them if they were discussing something with me. This is even more of an issue.

Even putting that aside, there's an issue of perception of someone potentially using authority or the threat of force to influence what happens on the field, whether actual or not.

Good point. The umpire is supposed to be the authority figure out there. An officer in full uniform with a gun is completely undermining his or her authority, whether intentional or not. 

Either be a coach or be an officer for a couple hours, not both. I don’t think a base umpire in uniform with a gun would go over very well. It really shouldn’t be any different for coaches. 

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I played for FOP growing up in LL baseball. Some of our coaches were LEO's, but they never came on the field in uniform.  Many times we had LEO's at our games, in uniform, but they always sat in the stands or stood outside the fence.

On a personal level, it doesn't bother me, but I'm in a very rural area where it's very common to see sidearms on people.  I completely understand why it would bother others though and agree it shouldn't be visible while coaching.  If they must carry due to department regulations or whatever, then have them do it as concealed carry.

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Wonder how players, coaches, and fans would feel if the BU carried throughout the game.

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4 minutes ago, yawetag said:

Wonder how players, coaches, and fans would feel if the BU carried throughout the game.

is he a LEO and in uniform?

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If it was anyone other than a uniformed LEO volunteering their time, I'd say absolutely no way am I letting it on the field if I know about it (if it's CC and I don't know about it? I don't know, and I don't care). 

But it is a uniformed LEO volunteering their time to coach. Now, they may actually have a shorter leash due to the power dynamic optics, but I'm not telling them to lock it up unless I'm directly told to by a supervisor.

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2 hours ago, yawetag said:

Wonder how players, coaches, and fans would feel if the BU carried throughout the game.

What a great umpire!!  He's gotten every call correct!

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I may be wrong, but I would suspect that the coaches’ departments would have policies about performing non-law enforcement activities in uniform.  Just because they are volunteering dos not mean they are representing their department or performing any official duties.

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9 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I may be wrong, but I would suspect that the coaches’ departments would have policies about performing non-law enforcement activities in uniform.  Just because they are volunteering dos not mean they are representing their department or performing any official duties.

That's an interesting point, but not one I'm bringing up on the field. I guess it's possible that the LEO is dressed in uniform to intimidate, but that's for sure a HTBT situation. 

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:sarcasm:   DO NOT make an incorrect call!!! You think it's bad when a parent follows you to your car.......

See the source image

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I would also tell them. "I am sorry to do this but LL rules mandate that I ask you to remove your weapon from the playing field and If you would please come back attired more for coaching. I do thank you for your service though and appreciate all they do."

 

If they refused Toss'em  let them discuss it with the DA

 

 

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On 5/29/2019 at 1:50 PM, The Man in Blue said:

I may be wrong, but I would suspect that the coaches’ departments would have policies about performing non-law enforcement activities in uniform.  Just because they are volunteering dos not mean they are representing their department or performing any official duties.

Did you read the article? On at least some of the occasions she was volunteer coaching, she gave up her lunch break to do it. She was working. I doubt this is something she would do without the full support of her department administration, and in my opinion, good for them.

For those who think it "inappropriate" for an armed, uniformed law enforcement officer to coach, why? I think I understand why this rule exists (existed) in general, these organizations don't want just anyone showing up to coach armed. Okay. But I'm not sure that was written with uniformed law enforcement officers in mind. With all the school shootings, church shootings, mall shootings, etc. nowadays, you're seriously more concerned about a volunteer coach of 1st through 5th graders in full LE uniform being the  armed one? With all that's going on in the world today, some of you are going to ask/demand a law enforcement officer in full uniform disarm because of a rule? Or because you perceive his/her being in uniform to challenge your authority? Good lord. Perhaps if others would be more willing to step up and volunteer, officers in full uniform wouldn't have to. Perhaps consider they're filling roles others aren't, or won't. Reading the article, it seemed the players and most of the parents from her team seem to like her and it didn't bother them how she was dressed. So you toss them from the game site because they won't (or as has been pointed out, can't) comply with your demand. Then you get what happened here, two teams that can't play a game. But hey, at least there's no guns at the field (that you know of).

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35 minutes ago, Maineac said:

Did you read the article? On at least some of the occasions she was volunteer coaching, she gave up her lunch break to do it. She was working. I doubt this is something she would do without the full support of her department administration, and in my opinion, good for them.

For those who think it "inappropriate" for an armed, uniformed law enforcement officer to coach, why? I think I understand why this rule exists (existed) in general, these organizations don't want just anyone showing up to coach armed. Okay. But I'm not sure that was written with uniformed law enforcement officers in mind. With all the school shootings, church shootings, mall shootings, etc. nowadays, you're seriously more concerned about a volunteer coach of 1st through 5th graders in full LE uniform being the  armed one? With all that's going on in the world today, some of you are going to ask/demand a law enforcement officer in full uniform disarm because of a rule? Or because you perceive his/her being in uniform to challenge your authority? Good lord. Perhaps if others would be more willing to step up and volunteer, officers in full uniform wouldn't have to. Perhaps consider they're filling roles others aren't, or won't. Reading the article, it seemed the players and most of the parents from her team seem to like her and it didn't bother them how she was dressed. So you toss them from the game site because they won't (or as has been pointed out, can't) comply with your demand. Then you get what happened here, two teams that can't play a game. But hey, at least there's no guns at the field (that you know of).

All of your questions have already been answered.

Keep in mind that LE coaches have not been exempt from being violent towards umpires or other participants.

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4 hours ago, Maineac said:

Did you read the article? On at least some of the occasions she was volunteer coaching, she gave up her lunch break to do it. She was working. I doubt this is something she would do without the full support of her department administration, and in my opinion, good for them.

For those who think it "inappropriate" for an armed, uniformed law enforcement officer to coach, why? I think I understand why this rule exists (existed) in general, these organizations don't want just anyone showing up to coach armed. Okay. But I'm not sure that was written with uniformed law enforcement officers in mind. With all the school shootings, church shootings, mall shootings, etc. nowadays, you're seriously more concerned about a volunteer coach of 1st through 5th graders in full LE uniform being the  armed one? With all that's going on in the world today, some of you are going to ask/demand a law enforcement officer in full uniform disarm because of a rule? Or because you perceive his/her being in uniform to challenge your authority? Good lord. Perhaps if others would be more willing to step up and volunteer, officers in full uniform wouldn't have to. Perhaps consider they're filling roles others aren't, or won't. Reading the article, it seemed the players and most of the parents from her team seem to like her and it didn't bother them how she was dressed. So you toss them from the game site because they won't (or as has been pointed out, can't) comply with your demand. Then you get what happened here, two teams that can't play a game. But hey, at least there's no guns at the field (that you know of).

I’m uncomfortable having a gun 60 feet from me or whatever at a baseball game. If that’s unreasonable, then I’m unreasonable. 

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I did read the article and admittedly had to read that section more than once to comprehend it.  I’m still not sure what it was saying ...

Either:

She gave up her lunch break in order to get off early to get to the field barely in time for the games (how I interpreted it) OR she was actually coaching on her lunch break.

Now, I don’t know of too many youth sports that play at lunch time (on the weekend, I suppose).  If she was actually coaching on her lunch break, I am developing more issues with this and questioning the judgment even further.

Oddly, I am having more of an issue with both of them coaching in uniform than coaching with a firearm.  To me, it just is not appropriate and reflects poorly.  The uniform of a law enforcement officer is the uniform of a law enforcement officer, not the clothes that you just happen to be wearing at the moment.

Do you wear your umpiring gear and uniform to take the kids to the zoo?  How about to the office on a daily basis?

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6 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Now, I don’t know of too many youth sports that play at lunch time (on the weekend, I suppose).  If she was actually coaching on her lunch break, I am developing more issues with this and questioning the judgment even further.

Police officers work different shifts than 9-5. Her "lunch break" might have been 6-7pm.

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9 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

I’m uncomfortable having a gun 60 feet from me or whatever at a baseball game. If that’s unreasonable, then I’m unreasonable. 

What about all of us who carry concealed? You could have lots of guns close to you that you are unaware of. Just sayin'.

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13 hours ago, Matt said:

All of your questions have already been answered.

Keep in mind that LE coaches have not been exempt from being violent towards umpires or other participants.

Oh, okay. So no need for discussion or a different point of view then.

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