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Cursing


Mister B
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Question

Coaching my 13u team and I, (Asst. Coach), walk up late to hand our line up card to the other HC. (1 hour drive to game) As I'm there I catch the PU discussing how swearing will not be tolerated, and if they hear any, it will result in an immediate ejection. He then went into "Properly and legally equipped" and then a very convoluted explanation about the batter staying in the box for a pick at 3B. 

Anyway, the swearing thing was the first time I ever heard an umpire spend so much, if any, time on it. I'm pretty liberal on cussing, as long as it's not directed at me or another player directly, but loud enough to be heard in a bout of anger, I'm just going to say, "Watch your language." and let it go. Never had it go further. If it's the result of something, I usually don't say anything. 13 year old drops an F-Bomb after getting hit in the elbow, I figure his parents are usually there and they'll deal with it as they wish.  

Anyone else place such a heavy penalty on cursing? 

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On 5/25/2019 at 8:25 AM, catsbackr said:

How do you restrict players?

By ejecting them.  :hopmad::wave:

 

Seriously though, restriction is not an actual option for a player.  Ejecting a player (speaking in Fed rules) restricts the player to the bench since the player cannot actually leave the grounds or the supervision of his/her coaches.

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On 5/25/2019 at 5:10 PM, HokieUmp said:

I DID ask what age-range you're talking about, and that was ignored, so I'll again point out the OP was talking about 12 YEAR OLDS.  Are you really telling me, through all this, you're okay with them swearing up a storm in the dugout??  Where in God's name do you live, and why are the parents for your team/league okay with that?  I'm no Pollyanna, and I long ago realized the world has already gone to hell, and there's no saving it, but .... wow, dude.  If nothing else, I can't imagine what sanctioning body is gonna be okay with that kind of behavior pattern.  That stuff falls WELL into a code of conduct.

I had it answered then deleted it, thinking your question was more about my "the game's over there response" being inappropriate for the younger kids.

I've coached from 12U to 18U - I don't think it really matters.  At the younger ages it doesn't happen as often, and the parents were typically near by...if they have a problem with it they can deal with it.   I, and virtually everyone I went to school with, boys and girls, swore in the school yard as far back as grade one.   Kids swear.  Just last summer I told one mother that I'd bet any amount of money her kids swear and she was adamant her kids would never talk like that.   About a week later she and I were watching her youngest daughter play, 13 years old, and we're standing next to the bench (fenced off) - not realizing we were right there she's looking around confused and then says "where the SH*# is my bat?"   I thought the mother was gonna drop dead right there.  I never laughed so hard in my life.

To your question about "why are the parents OK with that?"   Frankly, none of your business, or mine.  It's their prerogative.  For me, as the coach of this team, it's my prerogative to determine if I care or not.  If the parents give me a mandate, then I'll operate to that mandate.  If the facility director says something, I'll act on it.  If they don't, I'll operate to my own mandate, meaning I'll set my standard and my line, and keep the players to that code of conduct.   Typically, I don't get bent out of shape, even when kids don't, as you say, pick their spot.  I also don't think cursing reflects on anyone's moral standing nor intelligence.  I pass no judgment on it.  If anything, I judge harshly the people who put in stupid euphemisms in place of the swear words and think their virtue has been preserved.   If I think it's getting out of hand or getting a little gratuitous, I'll do something about it.  But that is indeed subjective.

As long as kids hear their parents swear, or in the context of baseball, see pros swear on television (they can read lips), or if they're fortunate enough to go see a game and sit behind the dugout to hear it first hand, I'm not going to fight the battle to get them to say "freaking ball".  I don't think being respectful to others or your elders has lack of cursing as a prerequisite.

On 5/25/2019 at 5:10 PM, HokieUmp said:

And I'm STILL not sure why you keep bringing up grammar in this thread.  To respond - and in the spirit of the title of this thread - I don't give a F*#K about your, or your kid's, grammar.

Cursing is grammatical license.  That's all it is.  When you police swear words, simply for the fact that they're swear words...in any context...then you are just being a glorified grammar cop.

Do you really differentiate between "you suck, blue" and "you F*#King suck, blue".   Or, if a kid leaves the plate, muttering to himself about a called third strike, do you differentiate between him saying to himself "swing the bat you idiot" and "swing the F*#King bat you idiot".

When you punish "F*#K" and ignore "fudge" you're punishing grammar.   This isn't an ethnic, racial or any type of slur.  It's a choice of a vulgar word over a more socially palatable one.  No one is fooled by "Shut the front door" or "See you next Tuesday" - you gonna let them go 'cause they didn't actually say the words?

You gonna differentiate between someone who says "W T F?" and someone who actually says the three words?

On 5/25/2019 at 5:10 PM, HokieUmp said:

 (And there's a solid chance I might say something like "look, fellas, I love to swear, too, but keep it the F*#K down."

I do like that, and I think most of the players I ever coached would have responded positively to that.   I see that as a reasonable request...key word is 'request'.  Not a warning.  I still don't think you have the authority to warn or eject bench behavior that is not directed at umps or the other team.  I think umpires who do, especially those that relish it, are overstepping, and in many cases, abusing their power.  I think associations/leagues that want it mandated are wrong to insist that umpires enforce it.  And I think that umpire associations, or umpires in general, are wrong to go along with it.  It's not a baseball problem.  Umps have enough SH*# on their plate to manage the game than worrying about bench grammar/vernacular.

On 5/25/2019 at 5:10 PM, HokieUmp said:

I'm gonna do it, because there's GONNA be a parent/spectator - if they're as loud as you suggest - who's going to cause problems.  And if not them, there's GONNA be a board member or school official - again, if it's THAT blatant as you yourself are suggesting - who's going to say something.  I'm not getting sanctions dropped on ME because a) your players haven't learned the concept of "picking your spot," and b) you're not taking on the role of "Adult" in the dugout.  (These ARE minors, remember.)

If that's what you're dealing with you have bigger problems.  If you're getting sanctioned or admonished for not intervening on how kids on a bench are talking amongst themselves you're dealing with political animals, and, IMO, I'd like to see you responding with "pound sand, I got bigger fish to fry on a baseball diamond...if you don't like it go fine the coach" - especially one as seasoned as yourself - considering the general shortage of umpires, and how loathe most associations are to getting rid of even those most inept umpires, I would hope a stance from someone like you would carry some weight.

 I'd say it's in an umpire's (and ump association's) best interest to reject that responsibility outright.   There are more appropriate officials and representatives who can observe, mandate and enforce that code of conduct if they really insist.  If the league wants that, then they can be the face of it, rather than hiding behind umpires.

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