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Coaching my 13u team and I, (Asst. Coach), walk up late to hand our line up card to the other HC. (1 hour drive to game) As I'm there I catch the PU discussing how swearing will not be tolerated, and if they hear any, it will result in an immediate ejection. He then went into "Properly and legally equipped" and then a very convoluted explanation about the batter staying in the box for a pick at 3B. 

Anyway, the swearing thing was the first time I ever heard an umpire spend so much, if any, time on it. I'm pretty liberal on cussing, as long as it's not directed at me or another player directly, but loud enough to be heard in a bout of anger, I'm just going to say, "Watch your language." and let it go. Never had it go further. If it's the result of something, I usually don't say anything. 13 year old drops an F-Bomb after getting hit in the elbow, I figure his parents are usually there and they'll deal with it as they wish.  

Anyone else place such a heavy penalty on cursing? 

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Some leagues have a strict ruling on this; maybe the umpire usually works that league.

But, it's all subjective; while I don't have the same stance as the umpire in this play, at least the umpire took the time to explain it so you weren't surprised b the first ejection.

 

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These are 12 year old kids. It rolls off their tongues now. I have recently completed my 6th HS season, and this was by far the worst I have ever encountered. If it is private, (meaning only me and the catcher heard it) it gets a warning. If it’s public (meaning those watching heard it) they get restricted. Any further outbursts, I eject.

when I mention it to the high schoolers that they said it, they look at me and don’t even realize it. When I walk over to the dugout to tell those using the language that I can hear everything they are saying, it’s no big deal. Our Conference (46 High schools) wants it cracked down upon. It is a losing battle. 

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57 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

These are 12 year old kids. It rolls off their tongues now. I have recently completed my 6th HS season, and this was by far the worst I have ever encountered. If it is private, (meaning only me and the catcher heard it) it gets a warning. If it’s public (meaning those watching heard it) they get restricted. Any further outbursts, I eject.

when I mention it to the high schoolers that they said it, they look at me and don’t even realize it. When I walk over to the dugout to tell those using the language that I can hear everything they are saying, it’s no big deal. Our Conference (46 High schools) wants it cracked down upon. It is a losing battle. 

Then the schools should have their employees deal with their students... I'm not the moral police.

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1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

These are 12 year old kids. It rolls off their tongues now. I have recently completed my 6th HS season, and this was by far the worst I have ever encountered. If it is private, (meaning only me and the catcher heard it) it gets a warning. If it’s public (meaning those watching heard it) they get restricted. Any further outbursts, I eject.

when I mention it to the high schoolers that they said it, they look at me and don’t even realize it. When I walk over to the dugout to tell those using the language that I can hear everything they are saying, it’s no big deal. Our Conference (46 High schools) wants it cracked down upon. It is a losing battle. 

Though any coach/player should know they use the f-bomb at their own peril, I'm not at all supportive of any umpire who brings his own moral sensibilities to police casual conversation.  I don't care who hears it.  I'll use my own judgment to control my players depending on what ears are nearby.

There's a difference between "F*#K you, blue" and two players on the bench talking to each other about "our F*#King homework".

You so much as look in my direction, let alone give me or my player a warning, about something that was not directed at you or your partner (or the other team), you're probably gonna be running me shortly after because I'm gonna say something like "the game's over there".

Not interested in you enforcing how I talk or how my players talk any more than I'm interested in having you correct my grammar.

And I'm not interested in debating the merits of saying "nice forking day" instead.

If FED or the high schools want it controlled then they can provide administrators to deal with it - it's not a baseball issue.   And the only reason an umpire would want to deal with this is to feed some ego trip or to improve their political standing in a local parish.   There's no baseball reason to deal with it.

The moral authorities can stop pretending indigence when they hear cussing or see middle fingers.

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In California cc ball they want us to eject if an f bomb is loud enough for the stands to hear it.  I'm not a fan of ejecting a player who grounds out after hitting a ground ball on a check swing and he drops an f bomb after crossing first base.  He's only pissed at himself.  If it's some guy from the dugout screaming "LET'S F&&&ING GO" at the top of his lungs, he will go home.  I think it's ridiculous that a college aged kid can go fight and die for our country, but God forbid he drops an f bomb.  It's pathetic.  And the umpire in the OP is wrong to have unnecessary threats in a plate conference.   

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10 minutes ago, umpstu said:

In California cc ball they want us to eject if an f bomb is loud enough for the stands to hear it.  I'm not a fan of ejecting a player who grounds out after hitting a ground ball on a check swing and he drops an f bomb after crossing first base.  He's only pissed at himself.  If it's some guy from the dugout screaming "LET'S F&&&ING GO" at the top of his lungs, he will go home.  I think it's ridiculous that a college aged kid can go fight and die for our country, but God forbid he drops an f bomb.  It's pathetic.  And the umpire in the OP is wrong to have unnecessary threats in a plate conference.   

The CC in AZ. Have the same language and code of conduct rule.

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1 minute ago, mw94 said:

The CC in AZ. Have the same language and code of conduct rule.

I was umpiring in the AZ cc the first time I was exposed to it.  Mattingly is the greatest.  Love listening to him teach.  He loves doing it.

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If it’s not directed at me or from one side to another, I usually let it go with a warning or “hey” at most.

If it IS one side addressing the other or addressing me “That’s a B***$**t” call blue! Boom. Done. 

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19 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

You so much as look in my direction, let alone give me or my player a warning, about something that was not directed at you or your partner (or the other team), you're probably gonna be running me shortly after because I'm gonna say something like "the game's over there".

Not interested in you enforcing how I talk or how my players talk any more than I'm interested in having you correct my grammar.

First of all, let me state for the record that I swear a fair bit, and do so enthusiastically.  #TeamSwearing  (Although, the idea of 12-year-olds not being smart enough to 'pick their spots' is disconcerting.)

But I have to ask - when you're doing this Lifer Baseball Hard-ass Coach Guy routine, what age range are we talking about?  Because - and imma just be blunt here - depending on where we are on the age spectrum, and what kinda ball we're talking, you're arguably what's wrong with kid baseball.  Having coaches who think they're some kind of junior-grade Joe Girardi*, turning everything into a dick-measuring contest, is a bad thing.

I'm sure I'll get a lecture, defensive or otherwise, on The Way Of The Coach, but it's a terrible example to kids in general, and even just when confined to "how to compete."  What you put in that section might be fine in the paid-player game, or maybe even the college game, but given the context of this thread, it's pretty terrible.  

And yeah, I WILL be running you, because once you bark "the game's over there," you just started the paperwork process.  And I'm not too worried about what you're interested in - I got assigned your game on Arbiter, not Tinder.  Where I look, and when I look there, aren't your concern - maybe you're not completely one of those "on the edge coaches," but the way that whole part was phrased makes you sound like you're spoiling for a fight from the plate meeting on.

 

*Joe Girardi might not be that bad, and might even be a lovely human.  But I grew up hating the Yankees, and have no plans to change that.

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3 hours ago, HokieUmp said:

First of all, let me state for the record that I swear a fair bit, and do so enthusiastically.  #TeamSwearing  (Although, the idea of 12-year-olds not being smart enough to 'pick their spots' is disconcerting.)

But I have to ask - when you're doing this Lifer Baseball Hard-ass Coach Guy routine, what age range are we talking about?  Because - and imma just be blunt here - depending on where we are on the age spectrum, and what kinda ball we're talking, you're arguably what's wrong with kid baseball.  Having coaches who think they're some kind of junior-grade Joe Girardi*, turning everything into a dick-measuring contest, is a bad thing.

I'm sure I'll get a lecture, defensive or otherwise, on The Way Of The Coach, but it's a terrible example to kids in general, and even just when confined to "how to compete."  What you put in that section might be fine in the paid-player game, or maybe even the college game, but given the context of this thread, it's pretty terrible.  

And yeah, I WILL be running you, because once you bark "the game's over there," you just started the paperwork process.  And I'm not too worried about what you're interested in - I got assigned your game on Arbiter, not Tinder.  Where I look, and when I look there, aren't your concern - maybe you're not completely one of those "on the edge coaches," but the way that whole part was phrased makes you sound like you're spoiling for a fight from the plate meeting on.

 

*Joe Girardi might not be that bad, and might even be a lovely human.  But I grew up hating the Yankees, and have no plans to change that.

FIrst - I have a very good relationship with many umpires - several of whom I have either coached or played while they umped for 25 years.   Some I've worked with.  Some have been team mates.   Many others I have dealt with as  Tournament Director - often the guy supplying a dedicated trailer to them, filling it with food and water, and then at night, with beer...and partaking with them.  I have been tossed from exactly three games in 40 years - two as a coach, one as a player.   I keep my cool.  I'm the guy who tells his teammates that the umpire was right, so STFU.

I don't go looking for fights with umpires, and a lot of things get ignored by me.  I don't beak about balls and strikes, and I don't dispute safe/out calls that are under a step either way.  In short, I don't worry much about umpire judgment as it all comes out in the wash.  The parents and players sign codes of conduct to not disparage the umps.  Players I coach don't blame umpires for missed calls and lost games.   I do, however, nitpick on rules...and game management. 

What I have a very low tolerance for is umpires who make themselves bigger than the game.  And, as an example, assert their authority to apply their own moral sensibilities to how people should talk (or any number of other things rent-a-cop umpires do when they want to let everyone know that they're in charge - "this is my game, my field, my rules - hey, everybody, see me...yeah, you know who's boss".)     I know this is the exception - all umpires are humans.  Some humans are asses.  Therefore, some umpires are asses.  Thankfully, I only run across two or three per year. 

If the kids are on the bench talking about their F*#King homework, or their SH*#ty part-time job, or their F*#King xbox, even if loud enough for spectators to hear, that is not impacting the game, nor your ability to manage it - unless you decide to let it.   Keep out of it and call the game.  Like I said before, it's not a baseball issue.  I'll deal with it if I think it's worth dealing with.  If the spectators, or the parents, or the facility manager wants to say something, they are free to do so.

When you say "where I look, and when I look there, aren't your concern", that's as much a dick measuring pissing contest as anything I may have said.  You may as well have just said "this is my field and I'll do wtf I want".   If you're not looking at the ball, pitcher, batter, base runners or your partner, and you're more worried about the grammar being used by the kids on my bench, yeah, that is my concern.   Even if its inside "your" fences, it's not always your business.

People tend to forget that every day more games are played without coaches and umpires than with - and this is true across all sports.  Kids manage to play these games all by themselves.   Umpires umpire, coaches coach, players play.   Since it is a game, the most important element is the playing.  The game doesn't happen without the players.   Any game where the players are not the focus is a waste.   Any umpire or coach who makes themselves the focal point of the game is an asshat.

 

 

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As an umpire, I can indeed look wherever I want, when I want, and I usually have a reason to do so. That’s the key. I only do it if there is a reason. I don’t care about F*#King homework, but the amount of times I’ve heard that phrase on a baseball field is zero. I do agree, however, that if it’s a swear that isn’t really at someone or about someone, don’t worry about it. But again, this doesn’t happen much IMO. One example where I did have it is I had a guy slide into third yesterday and say to his dugout let’s F*#King go. Who cares. However, if the swearing coming from the dugout is about someone or something, yeah, I’ll look, I’ll say something, whatever. And usually that’s what the swearing is about, let’s not pretend otherwise. And please let’s not play the semantics game of “I wasn’t talking to you.” Saying “this guy is F*#King terrible” to your assistant coach at a volume at which I can others can hear it is talking to me, period.

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On 5/23/2019 at 3:49 PM, Guest Guest said:

 If it’s public (meaning those watching heard it) they get restricted.

There is no such thing as restricting a player to the bench under Federation rules. Only coaches can be restricted.

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I eject for cussing if it is directed at me or at the opposing team. I would have to question the judgment of any coach who allowed their players to drop F bombs loud enough in the dugout for everyone to hear. 

Here is the problem

What is offensive to one guy may not be to another. Believe it or not some people don’t cuss and find it offensive. It depends on the age of the players and cuss word they use. If an umpire is told by his boss to keep it clean then we have to enforce it. 

When I did college or high school several times coach would come out to dispute a call. He would cuss, I would cuss but it was quiet and no one heard so who cares. 

Last year I spent 20 minutes explaining to a coach why he got ejected for yelling that’s a fu*king BS call across the field at a 9u game lol. 

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On 5/23/2019 at 3:49 PM, Guest Guest said:

These are 12 year old kids. It rolls off their tongues now. I have recently completed my 6th HS season, and this was by far the worst I have ever encountered. If it is private, (meaning only me and the catcher heard it) it gets a warning. If it’s public (meaning those watching heard it) they get restricted. Any further outbursts, I eject.

when I mention it to the high schoolers that they said it, they look at me and don’t even realize it. When I walk over to the dugout to tell those using the language that I can hear everything they are saying, it’s no big deal. Our Conference (46 High schools) wants it cracked down upon. It is a losing battle. 

How do you restrict players?

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19 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

filling it with food and water, and then at night, with beer...and partaking with them.

Username checks out.

1 hour ago, Dotteump said:

When I did college or high school several times coach would come out to dispute a call. He would cuss, I would cuss but it was quiet and no one heard so who cares.

While I may not mind profanity on my field in most situations, you'll never catch me using it. Primarily because - no matter what the coach or player said - someone is going to hear me and I'll be left defending myself to an assigner or TD. And, no matter how I'm absolved to that person, there's still a player or fan that will never forget that "umpire who cussed at the coach".

1 hour ago, Dotteump said:

Last year I spent 20 minutes explaining to a coach why he got ejected for yelling that’s a fu*king BS call across the field at a 9u game lol.

That's about 18 minutes too long.

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It was more of a talk then heated. I know the coach and had him several times before. If it’s a new coach or I don’t know him it’s professional. 

I will admit I talked too long but he could not understand why and I could not understand why he could not understand. 

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18 minutes too long, that's 19 1/2 minutes too long!

Cussing like that at a 9U game is an immediate ejection.  If he can't figure out why that's not appropriate in a 9U game he's got a lot to learn and I'm certainly not spending 20 minutes explaining it to him.

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On 5/24/2019 at 2:13 PM, beerguy55 said:

If the kids are on the bench talking about their F*#King homework, or their SH*#ty part-time job, or their F*#King xbox, even if loud enough for spectators to hear, that is not impacting the game, nor your ability to manage it - unless you decide to let it.   Keep out of it and call the game.  Like I said before, it's not a baseball issue.  I'll deal with it if I think it's worth dealing with.  If the spectators, or the parents, or the facility manager wants to say something, they are free to do so.

When you say "where I look, and when I look there, aren't your concern", that's as much a dick measuring pissing contest as anything I may have said.  You may as well have just said "this is my field and I'll do wtf I want".   If you're not looking at the ball, pitcher, batter, base runners or your partner, and you're more worried about the grammar being used by the kids on my bench, yeah, that is my concern.   Even if its inside "your" fences, it's not always your business.

I DID ask what age-range you're talking about, and that was ignored, so I'll again point out the OP was talking about 12 YEAR OLDS.  Are you really telling me, through all this, you're okay with them swearing up a storm in the dugout??  Where in God's name do you live, and why are the parents for your team/league okay with that?  I'm no Pollyanna, and I long ago realized the world has already gone to hell, and there's no saving it, but .... wow, dude.  If nothing else, I can't imagine what sanctioning body is gonna be okay with that kind of behavior pattern.  That stuff falls WELL into a code of conduct.

And I'm STILL not sure why you keep bringing up grammar in this thread.  To respond - and in the spirit of the title of this thread - I don't give a F*#K about your, or your kid's, grammar.

No question, it doesn't my strike zone, or my ability to call games.  But if your kids are swearing that much and THAT loud, for me to notice and/or any spectators, that's just too loud.  And I WILL "come in your dugout" to get them to tone it down.  Is that because I'm the Moral Police?  Nope.  (And there's a solid chance I might say something like "look, fellas, I love to swear, too, but keep it the F*#K down."  That's highly dependent on the age group.)  I'm gonna do it, because there's GONNA be a parent/spectator - if they're as loud as you suggest - who's going to cause problems.  And if not them, there's GONNA be a board member or school official - again, if it's THAT blatant as you yourself are suggesting - who's going to say something.  I'm not getting sanctions dropped on ME because a) your players haven't learned the concept of "picking your spot," and b) you're not taking on the role of "Adult" in the dugout.  (These ARE minors, remember.)

As to your "Oh yeah?  What about you?" charge..... Yes, I'll look where I damn well please during the course of the two hours we spend together.  Maybe you're unfamiliar with the game after all, but there's a LOT of downtime over the course of the day.  So I'm gonna be looking around, at things in general.  And if YOU'RE watching ME that much over the course of that apparently joyless two hours, to police where I'm looking, then a) that is MY concern, and b) you've got some issues.  For a guy that went through chemo, I'm pretty, but I'm objectively not THAT pretty, so stop looking at me.

(And if we're comparing resumes, I've been doing this for 17 years, and somewhere around 1,200 games or so.  The number of people that I've thrown out is two hands' worth, at most.  So I'm far from a red-ass.  Exactly one has been for language, when a player said "You're F*#King joking!" after a third strike call.  Even though it was Australia, where the f-bomb is used as EVERY part of language - verb, adjective, noun, adverb - I was EXPLICITLY told, since it was the teenage level of the town league, that they were NOT to swear.  So, my reply was "I'm not, and you're done.")

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My post was about 13 year olds, and while I'm pretty liberal, I'm not going to stand for players, on the bench, dropping F-bombs. A reminder that their parents are nearby in the stands, usually resolves that. I was just taken aback by the overbearing morality being foisted upon the team. In the case of ejecting for language, I think most of us would agree that the cuss word isn't the reason for the ejection. In the above example, I would have tossed the player for saying, "You gotta be joking!!" 

All this has made me realize that I just need to start using the word, "Fornicate!!" It's an F-word, has pretty much the same meaning with very little of the stigma. 

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8 hours ago, Mister B said:

 In the above example, I would have tossed the player for saying, "You gotta be joking!!" 

If you toss for that, I would say that might be a valid question.

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12 hours ago, Mister B said:

I was just taken aback by the overbearing morality being foisted upon the team.

Oh, no doubt - I would have been equally put off but hearing that from a partner at a plate meeting.  It's not REMOTELY required to discuss at the meeting.  Time/run limits (if any), properly equipped?, look over lineup cards (if we're doing that), ground rules, good luck.  Done.  Any/every thing else can be dealt with if/when it happens.

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