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Out of bounds, base awards

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Guest Bob

Runner on 1b, ball hit to third, fielder overthrows firstbaseman, ball ends up in outfield and stops just inbounds.  Runners are advancing to 2nd and third when the right fielder picks up the ball and his momentum carries himself and the ball out of bounds. 

What bases should the runners be awarded?

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54 minutes ago, Guest Bob said:

Runner on 1b, ball hit to third, fielder overthrows firstbaseman, ball ends up in outfield and stops just inbounds.  Runners are advancing to 2nd and third when the right fielder picks up the ball and his momentum carries himself and the ball out of bounds. 

What bases should the runners be awarded?

Two bases TOP, so 2nd and 3rd -- just as if the ball had gone Out Of Play

If ti wasnt' the momentum, but F9 stepped OOP, then two bases from the step.

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Guest Bob
 
 
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39 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Two bases TOP, so 2nd and 3rd -- just as if the ball had gone Out Of Play

If ti wasnt' the momentum, but F9 stepped OOP, then two bases from the step.

The ball was stopped (less than a foot from the OB line).   So it is not like he made a running catch and that momentum carried him out,  nor did he step out on purpose.  Just carless picked up the stopped ball and stepped out of bounds as he was positioning himself for the throw.

Looking for clarification.

Thanks  

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2 hours ago, noumpere said:

Two bases TOP, so 2nd and 3rd -- just as if the ball had gone Out Of Play

If ti wasnt' the momentum, but F9 stepped OOP, then two bases from the step.

In the OP the ball had stopped. It's now just like a throw. Two bases time the fielder stepped out.

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F9 picking up the ball which had been thrown by F5 (first play by an infielder) thus making any future out of play award a two base from time of throw. So the question becomes, where were the runners when F9 went OOP (throw for the purposes of this discussion)? 

If R1 has achieved 2nd base, and I can't see how he had not by the time the right fielder went out of play, he is awarded home. The batter runner, unless he is the slowest EVER, most likely has hit 1st by the time F9 goes OOP, so he would be awarded 3rd. Even in this arrangement, if R1 had not hit 2nd (he fell down) but the BR had hit 1st when the ball went out of play, R1 would be forced to score due to the BR being awarded 3rd.

Now if this is really bang/bang and the runners had not reached their next base prior to the throw? R1 to 3rd, BR to 2nd.

 

Edited by Mudisfun
Made a rule error!

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2 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

Even in this arrangement, if R1 had not hit 2nd (he fell down) but the BR had hit 1st when the ball went out of play, R1 would be forced to score due to the BR being awarded 3rd.

Not true.  You advance the lead runner first, and subsequent runners must "hold up" if needed.  The subsequent runner cannot "force" a runner to be awarded more basese than allowed by rule.

 

Note that if OBS was the issue, a leading runner can be forced (in some circumstances).

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4 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

, if R1 had not hit 2nd (he fell down) but the BR had hit 1st when the ball went out of play, R1 would be forced to score due to the BR being awarded 3rd.

 

 

This is incorrect. 

Rule 5.06(b)(4)(G) Comment: In certain circumstances it is
impossible to award a runner two bases. Example: Runner on
first. Batter hits fly to short right. Runner holds up between
first and second and batter comes around first and pulls up
behind him. Ball falls safely. Outfielder, in throwing to first,
throws ball into stands.


APPROVED RULING: Since no runner, when the ball is
dead, may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled,
the runner originally on first base goes to third base
and the batter is held at second base.

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10 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Not true.  You advance the lead runner first, and subsequent runners must "hold up" if needed.  The subsequent runner cannot "force" a runner to be awarded more basese than allowed by rule.

 

Note that if OBS was the issue, a leading runner can be forced (in some circumstances).

 

4 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

This is incorrect. 

Rule 5.06(b)(4)(G) Comment: In certain circumstances it is
impossible to award a runner two bases. Example: Runner on
first. Batter hits fly to short right. Runner holds up between
first and second and batter comes around first and pulls up
behind him. Ball falls safely. Outfielder, in throwing to first,
throws ball into stands.


APPROVED RULING: Since no runner, when the ball is
dead, may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled,
the runner originally on first base goes to third base
and the batter is held at second base.

I stand corrected. Allow me to amend my prior incorrect statement. Thank you for pointing out my error... I would hate to do this in a game!

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Guest Bob

R1 had rounded 2B (on his way to 3B) and R2 had rounded 1B and was headed to 2B when the ball was picked up (neither runner tripped, stopped, or was returning to previous base.)

After the right fielder picked up the ball and stepped OOB he threw to 2B - R1 rounded 3B and was headed home.  Umpires made R1 return to 3B and R2 was given 2B.  They basically treated the play as if the third baseman threw the ball OOB stating they cannot award more then 2 bases from "time of pitch"  which made no sense to me as the RF was the 2nd player to pick up the ball.

 

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In OBR, any time a player carries a ball out of play it's a one base award from the time he went out of play. You can find this under section 6.5 in the MiLBUM under "fielder going into out of play area." 

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1 hour ago, Stk004 said:

In OBR, any time a player carries a ball out of play it's a one base award from the time he went out of play. You can find this under section 6.5 in the MiLBUM under "fielder going into out of play area." 

That's if he carries a catch out of play. This wasn't a catch.

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On 5/22/2019 at 1:48 PM, Rich Ives said:

That's if he carries a catch out of play. This wasn't a catch.

"However, if a fielder, after catching a fly ball on the playing surface or at any point while in complete possession of the ball (pitched, thrown, or fair batted ball not in flight), steps or falls into any out-of-play area, the ball shall be dead and base runners shall be entitled to advance one base from the time the fielder entered such out-of-play area." 

Emphasis mine. 

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