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zoops

IF's F Bombing Partner

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JUCO playoff game.  2 teams that have a pretty good rivalry and have played in a previous round (both advanced to this round).  I'm U1, 3 man crew.  About 3 innings in, the F4 and F3 start getting upset about the PU's zone.  They had booted a couple balls that led to an early deficit so I'm sure some frustration was brewing from that as well.  They start talking between themselves (90 feet apart) in between pitches about how "f'ing terrible this guy is" and a few other lines using the f word disparaging the zone.  I could clearly hear it even though they were on the downwind side of a 20 mph breeze.  After hearing it a couple times, I told them to knock it off and play baseball.  Next inning, R1, double play ground ball hit to F6, flips to F4 and the runner goes in straight but there is some contact and the runner may have swung his foot out to get the F4.  It was close, I couldn't quite tell as I was more focused on the ball than exactly where the R1 was sliding (feel free to provide input on that as well).  F4 starts complaining to U3 about it, and U3 tells him he had it clean and when the F4 continues he tells him no more.  Head coach calmly walks out to talk to my partner and while they conference the F4 says to F3, who is about 20 feet away, loudly "why the F is he telling me to be quiet when he should be worried about getting the F'ing call right?"  I dumped F4.  Head coach had no objection to it.  I know in a high school game this is a no-brainer but thought I'd just see if anyone would handle this differently or let it go in a college game.  

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@zoops, it's good you had your partner's back.  That's a good thing.

 

If the HC is coming out to talk with your partner, obviously time has been called, you might move the players away from where the conference is going to take place prior to the coach arriving and maybe eliminate the extra comments by F4.  I don't know, it's kind of a had to be there situation.  Unless F4 is talking directly to me or my partner, where he could not hear it, I doubt I would eject.  This is JUCO ball, the language is a little harsher.  Like I said, had to be there I guess.

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Ask this question:  (A) was this a profanity directed "at" an official, or (B) a vulgar comment about a call an official made?  In (A) you have grounds for ejection without warning.  (B) you really don't unless this type of comment was made after a fielder left his position on the field to make it.  The again, it's grounds for ejection without official warning.

As far as JUCO ball and the language that comes with it, if you personally have a problem, catch the HC sometime without it looking obvious and ask him to clean it up a bit - that it's getting a little too much.  Relay you feel it's bordering unsportsmanlike and a bench warning may be issued if it continues.  This allows them to police their team and not make you look like an over-zealous umpire looking to draw attention to yourself.  I used this approach several times this year in regards to more than one on-deck hitter timing a pitcher outside the dugout.  They may not like it, but they need to respect it.  

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I think the ejection is unwarranted here, but, every player and coach at every (non-pro) level knows, even into slow pitch Tuesday night men's league with beer on the bench, that you use an F-bomb near an umpire at your own peril.  That's the great thing about amateur umps - you come from all walks of life...any game's ump could be a trucker, or a priest.   I've seen umps let what is described in the OP, and worse, go...and have seen a batter who, after popping up, simply says "F---", get tossed.   And you just kind of look at it pragmatically and ponder the perils of playing with fire.

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Last week I was in short RF between the top and bottom of the 1st, when I heard the SS tell the 2B that "this umpire (my partner behind the plate) is F*#King ass". I didn't eject, though I thought I'd be well within my rights to do so (HS rules after all). I did let it be known that I heard him and that it better stop immediately. I told him to knock it off and watch the language. He didn't say another word, thankfully.

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I'll just comment about the play. That's U3's call all the way. He doesn't have responsibility for the backend, should not even look over there. He should be in a position, deep B, to get the FPSR violation.

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20 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

I think the ejection is unwarranted here, but, every player and coach at every (non-pro) level knows, even into slow pitch Tuesday night men's league with beer on the bench, that you use an F-bomb near an umpire at your own peril.  That's the great thing about amateur umps - you come from all walks of life...any game's ump could be a trucker, or a priest.   I've seen umps let what is described in the OP, and worse, go...and have seen a batter who, after popping up, simply says "F---", get tossed.   And you just kind of look at it pragmatically and ponder the perils of playing with fire.

LOL, very true. I got tossed from a men's D league softball game for telling the umpire, "That call's horseSH*#". When he tossed me, I told him I wasn't calling you horse SH*#, I was calling the call horse SH*#. He said I was ejected for using profanity.

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I'm sure I've told this story before. Years ago, I worked the Philadelphia Catholic League, where we were taught to tell a cursing player, "That language doesn't bother me, but my partner's a priest--and it really upsets him!"

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On 5/14/2019 at 5:04 PM, zoops said:

JUCO playoff game.  2 teams that have a pretty good rivalry and have played in a previous round (both advanced to this round).  I'm U1, 3 man crew.  About 3 innings in, the F4 and F3 start getting upset about the PU's zone.  They had booted a couple balls that led to an early deficit so I'm sure some frustration was brewing from that as well.  They start talking between themselves (90 feet apart) in between pitches about how "f'ing terrible this guy is" and a few other lines using the f word disparaging the zone.  I could clearly hear it even though they were on the downwind side of a 20 mph breeze.  After hearing it a couple times, I told them to knock it off and play baseball.  Next inning, R1, double play ground ball hit to F6, flips to F4 and the runner goes in straight but there is some contact and the runner may have swung his foot out to get the F4.  It was close, I couldn't quite tell as I was more focused on the ball than exactly where the R1 was sliding (feel free to provide input on that as well).  F4 starts complaining to U3 about it, and U3 tells him he had it clean and when the F4 continues he tells him no more.  Head coach calmly walks out to talk to my partner and while they conference the F4 says to F3, who is about 20 feet away, loudly "why the F is he telling me to be quiet when he should be worried about getting the F'ing call right?"  I dumped F4.  Head coach had no objection to it.  I know in a high school game this is a no-brainer but thought I'd just see if anyone would handle this differently or let it go in a college game.  

When you say loudly, how loud was it?  Was it loud enough to easily be heard in the stands?  In the second part of the Op I can't find where he is making it personal enough for me to warrant his ejection, unless it is loud enough for the stands to hear.  Can't understand why people seem to get all riled up about the F word.  I was 20 years in the Navy and have spent the last 25 years umpiring baseball.  The F word is pretty much one of my top 5 words.

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On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 10:07 AM, humanbackstop19 said:

Ask this question:  (A) was this a profanity directed "at" an official, or (B) a vulgar comment about a call an official made?  In (A) you have grounds for ejection without warning.  (B) you really don't unless this type of comment was made after a fielder left his position on the field to make it.  The again, it's grounds for ejection without official warning.

As far as JUCO ball and the language that comes with it, if you personally have a problem, catch the HC sometime without it looking obvious and ask him to clean it up a bit - that it's getting a little too much.  Relay you feel it's bordering unsportsmanlike and a bench warning may be issued if it continues.  This allows them to police their team and not make you look like an over-zealous umpire looking to draw attention to yourself.  I used this approach several times this year in regards to more than one on-deck hitter timing a pitcher outside the dugout.  They may not like it, but they need to respect it.  

I'm not judging, but if you try that around here, the coach is probably going to ask you if the players were talking to you, and if not, mind your own business.  Just saying....

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And that’s a ridiculous semantical argument that won’t get anywhere with me. “I wasn’t talking to you, I was talking to my assistant coach.” Oh, sorry, in that case, what you just said about me (while screaming it) is irrelevant. Carry on! 

It’s our job to listen and hear everything we possibly can, even if not directly at us. It is my/our business. Doesn’t mean we act on everything. 

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53 minutes ago, catsbackr said:

I'm not judging, but if you try that around here, the coach is probably going to ask you if the players were talking to you, and if not, mind your own business.  Just saying....

And probably using the same word in question a couple times in the statement.

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It was loud enough to hear in the stands nearest first base, as the few (opposing) fans standing next to the fence made an ooh, ahh type noise when he said it.  Play was relaxed at the time since the HC and U3 were talking.  Probably not loud enough for the whole park to hear.  

He might not have been talking to U3, but he surely was talking about him.  What's the threshold for vulgar language if it's not directly at an umpire?  I guess I don't see why we should allow players to talk like this.  It's one thing to strikeout or boot a ball and let out an F bomb, another to be describing a call that everyone on the field can hear IMO.  

For those in the do not eject camp (most of you), would you recommend a warning (I basically gave one the inning before), or to just ignore?

I felt this team was heading out of control as they were whining about every close pitch, etc.  Maybe a warning would have reigned it in as well.  FWIW, they didn't make a peep the rest of the game and hit the tar out of the ball after being scoreless up to this point and won easily.  

Appreciate all the feedback - I work a fair amount of JUCO/D2 ball but have not had many instances like this so it's just something I don't get much practice with.  

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1 hour ago, catsbackr said:

I'm not judging, but if you try that around here, the coach is probably going to ask you if the players were talking to you, and if not, mind your own business.  Just saying....

If that happened, I quote the grounds for ejection in the CCA manual:

"While the standards listed above justify an ejection, they are not all inclusive and umpires are granted discretion to eject any participant, without a warning for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language."

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44 minutes ago, humanbackstop19 said:

If that happened, I quote the grounds for ejection in the CCA manual:

"While the standards listed above justify an ejection, they are not all inclusive and umpires are granted discretion to eject any participant, without a warning for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language."

Whatever works for you I guess.

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