Fair or foul

[Guest Skip]

I was the linesman last night. Ball hit up the third base line, home plate ump yells foul ball but the ball hits the third base bag in fair ground, pops and goes right to the third base coach and he catches it. What do you call ? What do you think. Happen next?

[JSam21]

If it was called foul... Its a foul ball. 

[yawetag]

@JSam21 is correct. If the umpire calls a foul ball, then nothing can change it.

I am interested in what a "linesman" is in baseball, though.

[Guest Skip]

5 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

If it was called foul... Its a foul ball. 

I thought that too but home plate called it fair after foul and became the base coach caught it. It was a dead ball and the batter got first base

[JSam21]

2 minutes ago, Guest Skip said:

I thought that too but home plate called it fair after foul and became the base coach caught it. It was a dead ball and the batter got first base

Put a tent on that play...

[noumpere]

13 minutes ago, Guest Skip said:

I thought that too but home plate called it fair after foul and became the base coach caught it. It was a dead ball and the batter got first base

Not totally a bad outcome.

Had the umpire NOT mistakenly declared the ball foul, then this would be intentional interference by a person authorized to be on the field, and the umpire awards bases to make it fair-- that seems likely to be first base.

So, while he shouldn't have changed the call, this seems to accomplish the "correct" result.

[Rich Ives]

18 minutes ago, noumpere said:

 

Had the umpire NOT mistakenly declared the ball foul, then this would be intentional interference by a person authorized to be on the field,

Had the umpire not called it foul the 3B coach would probably let it go.

 

[beerguy55]

 

30 minutes ago, yawetag said:

@JSam21 is correct. If the umpire calls a foul ball, then nothing can change it.

I am interested in what a "linesman" is in baseball, though.

Something tells me these are volunteer umps.  With the OP calling himself a linesman and the PU calling foul ball before the ball reaches third base, I think it's a safe deduction.  At the rec level with parent umps, correcting the mistake and judging the "what if" outcome is the appropriate approach.

Isn't a mistakenly called foul ball correctable in some rule sets?

[Senor Azul]

From the 2016 BRD (section 541, p. 353):

OBR Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  "The umpire may change his call even if the fielders reacted. Not a good thing, but possible. Especially if the call is changed after the initial play has completed. Since Fitzpatrick’s departure, a new rule has been added that umpires may do whatever necessary to correct the situation (to the best of their ability) following a changed call. This can occur real time, or following the play.”

Play 335-541:  Without dropping his bat Bubba hunkers down to avoid an inside pitch. The ball nicks off the knob end and rolls into fair territory. The UIC erroneously calls “Foul ball!” and then quickly yells “Play it! Fair ball!” On the first call Bubba stops and starts to return; on the second call, F2 picks up the ball and throws to first for the out. Ruling:  It’s a foul ball at all levels.

From the 2016 BRD (section 541, p. 352) NCAA only:

Bill Thurston ruled that such a call (foul to fair) can be changed only if the call had no impact on the obvious outcome of a safe hit.

Play 86:  B1 pulls a line drive down the left-field line that bounces just fair. The umpire, momentarily confused, calls, “Foul.” BR stops to object, then proceeds to first as F7 recovers the ball in deep left field. Next, the offensive coach contends the ball was, in fact, fair. Ruling:  If the umpire agrees with the coach (the ball was fair), he is empowered to change his call in this case because the obvious outcome of the hit would have been a double. BR is awarded second base. If the umpire does not (or will not) agree, the ball is foul and B1 returns to bat.

As in life, there are exceptions even to the high school rule about changing a foul call to fair.

2005 NFHS Baseball Rule Interpretations SITUATION 4: With the bases empty, the batter hits a long fly ball down the left-field line that easily goes over the outfield fence. With the sun in his eyes, the plate umpire initially declares “Foul Ball,” but then realizes he made a mistake, that the ball did indeed go over the fence in flight in fair territory. RULING: The umpire may reverse his call and declare a home run. The ball is dead because it left the field by going over the fence in flight, not because the umpire declared, “Foul Ball.” (10-2-1l, 5-1-1f-4, 8-3-3a)

[umpstu]

40 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Had the umpire not called it foul the 3B coach would probably let it go.

 

Or thrown to first for the out.  You know those third base coaches have the best arms.

[JSam21]

49 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

 

Something tells me these are volunteer umps.  With the OP calling himself a linesman and the PU calling foul ball before the ball reaches third base, I think it's a safe deduction.  At the rec level with parent umps, correcting the mistake and judging the "what if" outcome is the appropriate approach.

Isn't a mistakenly called foul ball correctable in some rule sets?

I believe only on balls beyond the bases. 

[Aging_Arbiter]

replay review at local rec part via smart phone recording?

[kristoffae]

1 hour ago, yawetag said:

@JSam21 is correct. If the umpire calls a foul ball, then nothing can change it.

I am interested in what a "linesman" is in baseball, though.

I need to know this as well. Please help a brother out!

[JSam21]

1 hour ago, yawetag said:

@JSam21 is correct. If the umpire calls a foul ball, then nothing can change it.

I am interested in what a "linesman" is in baseball, though.

 

4 minutes ago, kristoffae said:

I need to know this as well. Please help a brother out!

[Rich Ives]

2 hours ago, umpstu said:

Or thrown to first for the out.  You know those third base coaches have the best arms.

He'd throw his own runner out? Seriously?

[Richvee]

5 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

He'd throw his own runner out? Seriously?

No Rich. Not seriously. It was joke.  A pretty obvious joke. 

[Lou B]

IF the Ump is going to correct the call, and that's a big IF, I can see giving the batter first base.  If the ball hit the third base bag and bounced into foul territory I have to believe the batter would have beaten that one out.

[HokieUmp]

9 hours ago, JSam21 said:

 

*PEDANTRY ALERT*   *PEDANTRY ALERT*   *PEDANTRY ALERT*

That's not a linesman.  That's a goal judge.

And Aussie Rules Football is a pretty awesome sport.  Go Sydney Swans!

[Rich Ives]

3 hours ago, Richvee said:

No Rich. Not seriously. It was joke.  A pretty obvious joke. 

Not very obvious.

 

[Mister B]

3 hours ago, HokieUmp said:

*PEDANTRY ALERT*   *PEDANTRY ALERT*   *PEDANTRY ALERT*

That's not a linesman.  That's a goal judge.

And Aussie Rules Football is a pretty awesome sport.  Go Sydney Swans!

Back in the 80s they wore lab coats and it is an awesome sport if not confounding. Although Rugby 7s has got to be one of the best spectator sports. 

[WilsonFlyer]

 

[JSam21]

11 hours ago, HokieUmp said:

*PEDANTRY ALERT*   *PEDANTRY ALERT*   *PEDANTRY ALERT*

That's not a linesman.  That's a goal judge.

And Aussie Rules Football is a pretty awesome sport.  Go Sydney Swans!

In all honesty... I just wanted the pointing... 

[beerguy55]

18 hours ago, Richvee said:

No Rich. Not seriously. It was joke.  A pretty obvious joke. 

You should know by now that RichIves is an irony-free zone.

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

You should know by now that RichIves is an irony-free zone.

You should know by now that one needs to use the emojis because we cannot convey intent through vocal inflections or facial expressions. 

 

[HokieUmp]

On 5/3/2019 at 2:27 AM, Mister B said:

Back in the 80s they wore lab coats and it is an awesome sport if not confounding. Although Rugby 7s has got to be one of the best spectator sports. 

Lab coats - AND fedoras!!  I prefer rugby league, when it comes to the rugby family.