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Runner Lane Interference Penalty


BlueMagic

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Perhaps I’m just not looking in the right place, but if a BR is called out for interference in NFHS & NCAA for being out of the running lane (hit with the throw), do other runners return to bases occupied at the time of pitch or time of interference?

Example: R1, 1 out. R1 running on pitch. Batter hits ball to 3rd, runs illegally the whole way, gets hit with throw & is called out for interference. R1 reached 2B before the interference. Does R1 return to first or stay at 2nd? Would like to know for Fed & NCAA.

Thanks

 

 

 

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NFHS Rule 8-4 2 PENALTY: The runner is out. Interference is called and the ball is dead immediately...Runners shall return to the bases occupied at the time of the pitch.

Batter is out and runner returns to 1st. Don't know NCAA but I believe its the same.

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2 hours ago, AtlUmp said:

NFHS Rule 8-4 2 PENALTY: The runner is out. Interference is called and the ball is dead immediately...Runners shall return to the bases occupied at the time of the pitch.

Batter is out and runner returns to 1st. Don't know NCAA but I believe its the same.

Hmm -- FED must have changed the rule / penalty.  It used to be TOI, always.  As a practical matter, the runner "never" had reached the next base. ;)

 

NCAA:  TOP, unless there's been an "intervening play" in which case it's TOI.

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For the FED ruling on interference plays I think the applicable rule is actually 8-2-9:

ART. 9 . . . Each runner shall touch his base after the ball becomes dead. All awarded bases must be touched in their proper order. The runner returns to the base he had reached or passed when the ball became dead. In the event of interference, a runner returns to the base he had legally reached at the time of the interference. If the interference does not cause the batter to be out and any other runner cannot return to the base last legally occupied at the time of the interference, he is advanced to the next base.

a. The runner returns to the base occupied at the time of the pitch if his advance was during an uncaught foul.

Also see 2019 FED case plays 8.2.6 Situation A and B.

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Mr. noumpere, did you edit your post? That part about the FED rule is new, isn’t it? I seem to recall that you have stated at least once before that you don’t edit posts and that you prefer to just make an additional post. Am I wrong about that? If so, I apologize.

A couple more questions for you—did you notice that in the example given in the OP the throw to first base came from the third base area? Do you agree that an RLI call should be made on that kind of play?

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FED 2007 Interps:

"SITUATION 5: With (a) one out or (b) two outs, the visiting team has a runner on third in the top of the seventh. The game is tied 2-2. R1, on third, gets a great jump and easily scores on a suicide bunt. After R1 has scored, F2 picks up the ball and throws to first in an attempt to get B3 out. B3 is out of the running lane and is hit by F2's throw. Does the run by R1 count? RULING: B3 is out for interference. In (a), R1's run counts because he scored prior to the interference by B3. Had the interference by B3 occurred before R1 crossed the plate, R1 would be returned to third base, the base he occupied at the time of the interference. In (b), R1's run would not count as the third out occurred by B3 before he touched first base. (8-4-1g, 9-1-1a)"

Interestingly, that run would not score in OBR/NCAA.

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29 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. noumpere, did you edit your post? That part about the FED rule is new, isn’t it? I seem to recall that you have stated at least once before that you don’t edit posts and that you prefer to just make an additional post. Am I wrong about that? If so, I apologize.

A couple more questions for you—did you notice that in the example given in the OP the throw to first base came from the third base area? Do you agree that an RLI call should be made on that kind of play?

In Fed especially, a throw from third base would not qualify for RLI:

2010 NFHS Rules Interpretations, Situation 7:

B1 lays down a bunt that is fielded by F2 in fair territory a few feet in front of home plate. As BR is 60 feet from home base, he is running outside the running lane with one foot completely in fair ground and not touching the lines of the running lane. Ruling: BR is required to be in the running lane the last 45 feet to first when the ball is fielded and thrown FROM AN AREA BEHIND HIM

I wouldn't call it in an OBR or NCAA game either.

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47 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. noumpere, did you edit your post? That part about the FED rule is new, isn’t it? I seem to recall that you have stated at least once before that you don’t edit posts and that you prefer to just make an additional post. Am I wrong about that? If so, I apologize.

A couple more questions for you—did you notice that in the example given in the OP the throw to first base came from the third base area? Do you agree that an RLI call should be made on that kind of play?

I did edit my post, but only to add what I had attempted to put in the first place.  Don't know why it wasn't there.  And, I have no problem editing posts in similar circumstances. (I agree that some edits could be problematic).

I did not notice the throw location in the OP.  In general, I think a throw needs to come from an area bounded by a line parallel to the first base line running through the pitcher's mound.  But, that wasn't really the point of the OPs question, either, and maybe this play was the exception that proves the rule.

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The penalty that Mr. AtlUmp cited is actually the penalty for the force play slide rule in rule 8-4-2b, not for all interferences. The FED sends runners back to the base occupied at the time of interference (TOI) as everyone else has posted. And just so there is no confusion caused by the example play in the OP here’s what the NCAA study guide author says about the running lane. The following text was written by George Demetriou and taken from his blog at Baseball Rules Academy website—he also writes a rules column for another umpire website (which shall remain nameless here ever more).

“The purpose of the three-foot wide lane (aka 45’ lane) along the last half of the distance between home and first base in foul territory is widely misunderstood. It only applies when the ball is being thrown to first base from the area of the plate (roughly from behind the runner), and none of the three major baseball codes directly state that…”

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8 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

There is a play from several years ago where Joe West called RLI on a throw that was from F5. 

I wonder if that clip is out there anywhere?

I've seen 2 with such a throw: in one, F5 was crashing on a bunt and threw from the dirt circle/plate area/behind the BR. I doubt that raises any (additional) eyebrows for RLI.

The other was thrown from the edge of the grass, and it was up the line to F3, drawing him toward the BR. This is not "garden variety" RLI, as it's more difficult to support the notion that the BR's being out of the lane hindered F3 taking the throw (as opposed to his being in the vicinity of 1B, which presumably is not a violation).

I don't know which of these, if either, Joe West called.

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5 minutes ago, BlueMagic said:

Thanks for all the replies. I wasn’t aware that the ball being thrown from behind the runner was a prerequisite for calling RLI.

It's not an absolute -- but the farther away from the 1b line the throw is, the less likely it is that RLI can occur.

IIRC (and I might not be), in the Joe West play, the runner was relatively close to the bag and was nearly on a line from 1b-3b -- that is, his path from home to first would have resembled a backwards question mark.  That makes the call at least worthy of discussion.

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6 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

And...here's the other one, interestingly enough, they both involve Joe West:

 

And David Freese playing F5, though in the first video he only hit the dirt when Yadi came up firing to 3B.

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On the second video, why is U1 calling the runner out? Was PU signaling the running lane violation and he's echoing the out? The delay seems reasonable, but the nonchalant punch is completely against anything going on in the field of view of the camera.

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56 minutes ago, yawetag said:

On the second video, why is U1 calling the runner out? Was PU signaling the running lane violation and he's echoing the out? The delay seems reasonable, but the nonchalant punch is completely against anything going on in the field of view of the camera.

U1 *can* get this call -- especially if the play is near the base.  It's not exclusively PU's call.

(I can't say, obviously, if that is why U1 made the call in this specific play.)

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I'm not saying he's not getting the call, but he's not selling it. The mechanic he used was similar to what he'd use on a no-brainer out at the base, or a runner tagged three feet up the line.

If he's calling RLI, a point to the infraction, "That's Interference!", and a somewhat purposeful out call would be in order. Not a "yep, he's out, and even Ray Charles knows it" mechanic.

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2 minutes ago, yawetag said:

I'm not saying he's not getting the call, but he's not selling it. The mechanic he used was similar to what he'd use on a no-brainer out at the base, or a runner tagged three feet up the line.

If he's calling RLI, a point to the infraction, "That's Interference!", and a somewhat purposeful out call would be in order. Not a "yep, he's out, and even Ray Charles knows it" mechanic.

Not only that, but it's an immediate dead ball, so if he's calling it the first thing he should be doing is calling time.  I think he saw PU call it and decided to indicate that the BR is out.

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