Jump to content
BlueRanger

You Get An EJ! And You Get An EJ!...

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Dotteump said:

In my plate meeting I say

 HC you are responsible for your coaches, players and fans. Assistants need to assist, if you have any concerns over anything other then a judgement call we will address it with you only

FIFY. Waste of your time and breath. Roughly half of the coaches you’ll give that little speech to will know when and how to approach an umpire, and that they are responsible for their team and fans (and most of them want their fans kicked out anyway). You just insulted them. The other half that don’t know won’t listen to you anyway.

Just give your first name, get theirs. Examine and validate the lineup cards. Ask the all-important question, “Are all players properly and legally equipped?”. Cover ground rules, ask for any questions regarding ground rules. Barring those, if this is a timed game, click the button on the timer or stopwatch, and break the meeting.

I bet you will have a good game... or at least no worse than you would have had you continued talking for five minutes to an unreceptive audience.

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/15/2019 at 5:17 PM, jonathantullos said:

FWIW, in FED if an assistant comes out to argue, it's supposed to be an automatic EJ. At the plate meeting I let the HCs know that I will not be talking to their assistants per FED rules. Never had an issue.

 

On 1/15/2019 at 5:25 PM, Jimurray said:

FWIW, that shouldn't be something you would say at a plate meeting.

I think it's good to say for lower level (non-HS) ball.  I have to say in all my years of coaching little league through 15U travel and then HS age local summer ball, I never heard that from an ump until I was an assistant for a 17U team.  (Now most of those years I was a head coach, so it didn't matter for me, but I didn't know as an assistant.) 99% of non-HS coaches are NOT reading the NFHS rule book (and not all leagues follow it - many follow OBR, but many don't read those either, but I do think moreso than Fed, if not just because you can get it on-line for free) so if you're going to run an assistant for even coming out of the dugout calmly it might be good for them to know it.  My guess is that many travel coaches at the younger levels assume HS follows OBR. And let's be honest, professional baseball players and announcers don't even know more basic rules, so not knowing who can come out an argue is probably common.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Rock Bottom said:

 

I think it's good to say for lower level (non-HS) ball.  I have to say in all my years of coaching little league through 15U travel and then HS age local summer ball, I never heard that from an ump until I was an assistant for a 17U team.  (Now most of those years I was a head coach, so it didn't matter for me, but I didn't know as an assistant.) 99% of non-HS coaches are NOT reading the NFHS rule book (and not all leagues follow it - many follow OBR, but many don't read those either, but I do think moreso than Fed, if not just because you can get it on-line for free) so if you're going to run an assistant for even coming out of the dugout calmly it might be good for them to know it.  My guess is that many travel coaches at the younger levels assume HS follows OBR. And let's be honest, professional baseball players and announcers don't even know more basic rules, so not knowing who can come out an argue is probably common.

Calmly coming out of the dugout would be greeted by a calm stop sign not an ejection. At lower levels we might then advise them that ACs are seen, not heard.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Rock Bottom said:

if you're going to run an assistant for even coming out of the dugout calmly it might be good for them to know it.

If he's coming out calmly and it's not obvious what he's doing, then he's probably making it to me before I know it's to argue a call. For all I know, he's coming out to tell me the coach is having a heart attack. Now, once he gets to me and wants to question a call, I'll say "Coach, you can't come out to argue a call. Go back to the dugout." If he continues to argue, I'll give him a "If you don't return to the dugout, you will be ejected." Remember, this is a situation where he's calm and it's not obvious to anyone else what's going on.

The moment it's obvious he's not coming out for a non-game situation, he's getting a stop sign and an ejection if he continues to walk. The book has me covered here, so I don't need to give him any warning - the hand is enough.

46 minutes ago, Rock Bottom said:

99% of non-HS coaches are NOT reading the NFHS rule book

Then that's their fault. They expect me to know the rules, I expect them to know it, too.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, yawetag said:

If he's coming out calmly and it's not obvious what he's doing, then he's probably making it to me before I know it's to argue a call. For all I know, he's coming out to tell me the coach is having a heart attack. Now, once he gets to me and wants to question a call, I'll say "Coach, you can't come out to argue a call. Go back to the dugout." If he continues to argue, I'll give him a "If you don't return to the dugout, you will be ejected." Remember, this is a situation where he's calm and it's not obvious to anyone else what's going on.

The moment it's obvious he's not coming out for a non-game situation, he's getting a stop sign and an ejection if he continues to walk. The book has me covered here, so I don't need to give him any warning - the hand is enough.

Then that's their fault. They expect me to know the rules, I expect them to know it, too.

I didn't say it wasn't their fault - just said it's not bad to say.  No ump I've ever met knows all the rules, and no coach does either.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, yawetag said:

They expect me to know the rules, I expect them to know it, too.

It sounds like you're the delusional one. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Rock Bottom said:

I didn't say it wasn't their fault - just said it's not bad to say.  No ump I've ever met knows all the rules, and no coach does either.  

No coach knows all the rules, but all coaches should know the rules that directly deal with their staying in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, yawetag said:

No coach knows all the rules, but all coaches should know the rules that directly deal with their staying in the game.

I can find no where in the OBR where it says that coaches have additional restrictions on them in discussions with umpires than managers do.  Where is that written?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Rock Bottom said:

I can find no where in the OBR where it says that coaches have additional restrictions on them in discussions with umpires than managers do.  Where is that written?

It's not. In essence is it falls under SOP. I think there is something in the FED book about it. But it has been so long since that was discussed, I cant remember.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Rock Bottom said:

I can find no where in the OBR where it says that coaches have additional restrictions on them in discussions with umpires than managers do.  Where is that written?

I'll reword my statement, as I was under the assumption the context after your "NFHS rules aren't available for free" statement was all based on Fed rules and we were specifically discussing assistant coaches coming out to argue.

New statement: All coaches, head or assistant, should know that coming out to argue a judgment call will severely limit their ability to stay in the game.

I'll still adhere to the fact that if the coaches expect us to know the rules, I expect them to know the rules, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/24/2019 at 10:09 AM, Rock Bottom said:

I think it's good to say for lower level (non-HS) ball. 

What’s the point? The Head Coaches are at the Plate Meeting with the umpires, right? Do you actually believe that Aaron and Zack are going to leave that “highly informative” Plate Meeting you just conducted and relay to their Assistant Coaches that they better not step out of the dugout to argue a call because the umpires will only allow or tolerate Aaron or Zack to approach them, and even then, that they should only approach the calling umpire, and that if needed, the calling umpire will get together with his fellow umpires, and still get the call wrong... I mean, right.

That long run-on sentence is trying to prove a point.

It’s all unnecessary. Aaron and Zack don’t give two craps about you and your “instructions”. And when it comes down to it, there are some HCs who have little or no rein over their ACs, and frankly, don’t care if they get tossed.

Try it. Stop giving instructions or reminders on procedures, protocol, or sportsmanship, and just see what happens ( @Richvee, @conbo61 and the rest of the NJ boys don’t get this luxury).

How you conduct yourself as an umpire – positioning, hustle, projection, communication – is much, much more effective than what you espouse at the plate meeting. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, MadMax said:

What’s the point? The Head Coaches are at the Plate Meeting with the umpires, right? Do you actually believe that Aaron and Zack are going to leave that “highly informative” Plate Meeting you just conducted and relay to their Assistant Coaches that they better not step out of the dugout to argue a call because the umpires will only allow or tolerate Aaron or Zack to approach them, and even then, that they should only approach the calling umpire, and that if needed, the calling umpire will get together with his fellow umpires, and still get the call wrong... I mean, right.

That long run-on sentence is trying to prove a point.

It’s all unnecessary. Aaron and Zack don’t give two craps about you and your “instructions”. And when it comes down to it, there are some HCs who have little or no rein over their ACs, and frankly, don’t care if they get tossed.

Try it. Stop giving instructions or reminders on procedures, protocol, or sportsmanship, and just see what happens ( @Richvee, @conbo61 and the rest of the NJ boys don’t get this luxury).

How you conduct yourself as an umpire – positioning, hustle, projection, communication – is much, much more effective than what you espouse at the plate meeting. 

I hear you; I'm not having long plate meetings.  I ask if they are legally and properly equipped, go around the field for any fence holes, etc., out of bounds, etc., time limit (because they just changed it this year), and that's it (for HS games we have to ask about a trainer/doctor and AED availability, but I haven't done those yet).  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 3.3.1 Situation V:  With a base runner on first and following an attempted steal, the assistant coach for Team A who is coaching first, leaves the coaching box and charges onto the field to talk to the base umpire in a two-person crew arguing that the runner was safe on the steal attempt. RULING:  The assistant coach who was coaching first, and the head coach receive a written warning and are both restricted to the dugout for the remainder of the game. If the conduct of either coach were of such gravity to violate Rule 3-3-1f in other parts, the coach(es) could be ejected.

Also see case plays 3.3.1 W, X, Y, Z, and AA all under the heading of Assistant Coach Conduct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the 2016 BRD (section 133, p. 105)--No member of the coaching staff who is not the head coach may leave the vicinity of the bench or coaching box to dispute an umpire’s judgment call. PENALTY:  Both the head coach and the offender shall be restricted to the dugout. If the offense is judged severe enough, the umpire may eject the assistant and restrict the head coach.

2018 NFHS rule 3-3 ART. 1 . . . A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:

f. commit any unsportsmanlike act to include, but not limited to,

6. any member of the coaching staff who is not the head coach (or designee) in 3-2-4 leaving the vicinity of the dugout or coaching box to dispute a judgment call by an umpire.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...