Balk Rule - runner at first

[Guest Glen]

Runner at first only.  Right-handed pitcher.  The pitcher lifts his front leg and spins toward second base and then throws to first.  Is that a balk?

[Richvee]

Did he step towards second? If Yes..Then this is a balk. He cannot step to an unoccupied base. Unless.......Did R1 break towards 2B prior to the pitcher stepping to second? He is allowed to stepand fakeor throw to 2B if R1 made an attempt to advance.  If R1 was simply leading off, and the pitcher spun and stepped to 2B, (throw or no throw) we have a balk.

[noumpere]

If he spun clockwise all the way around and threw to first, that's a balk.

[Double Up]

On 10/12/2018 at 6:53 PM, Richvee said:

Did he step towards second? If Yes..Then this is a balk. He cannot step to an unoccupied base. Unless.......Did R1 break towards 2B prior to the pitcher stepping to second? He is allowed to stepand fakeor throw to 2B if R1 made an attempt to advance.  If R1 was simply leading off, and the pitcher spun and stepped to 2B, (throw or no throw) we have a balk.

3

This is one of the more intricate concepts of the OBR.  I've never seen this done in a game, particularly because I imagine most everyone believes it to be a balk,  throwing to an unoccupied base despite R1 heading towards 2B.

Let's say an LHP lifts his leg,   R1 breaks on first movement...  LHP continues his motion to an inside move to 2B, legal or illegal? 

 

 

 

[noumpere]

3 minutes ago, Double Up said:

This is one of the more intricate concepts of the OBR.  I've never seen this done in a game, particularly because I imagine most everyone believes it to be a balk,  throwing to an unoccupied base despite R1 heading towards 2B.

Let's say an LHP lifts his leg,   R1 breaks on first movement...  LHP continues his motion to an inside move to 2B, legal or illegal? 

 

 

 

Legal, of course.

 

[Richvee]

1 hour ago, Double Up said:

This is one of the more intricate concepts of the OBR.  I've never seen this done in a game, particularly because I imagine most everyone believes it to be a balk, 

 

 

 

I had it at 3B to end a game....

R2, 2 outs, last inning team AB down a run. RHP comes set. R2 breaks for 3rd. (I don't know why). F1 steps, throws to 3B, out by 20 feet. Game over. 

...Let $h*t show commence...Coaches, parents, players, all going nuts..."You don't know the rules, you're the worst umpire ever"...all the fun stuff..2 post game ejections followed, and 2 parents following us to the cars. Closest I ever came to having to call the police. 

[Double Up]

2 hours ago, Richvee said:

I had it at 3B to end a game....

R2, 2 outs, last inning team AB down a run. RHP comes set. R2 breaks for 3rd. (I don't know why). F1 steps, throws to 3B, out by 20 feet. Game over. 

...Let $h*t show commence...Coaches, parents, players, all going nuts..."You don't know the rules, you're the worst umpire ever"...all the fun stuff..2 post game ejections followed, and 2 parents following us to the cars. Closest I ever came to having to call the police. 

Hilarious!! Just goes to show how completely ignorant 99% of all the spectators are when it comes to the rules.    Most peoples versions of the rulebook have been handed down through old wives tales and miscommunication from their LL coaches. 

[noumpere]

15 hours ago, Double Up said:

Hilarious!! Just goes to show how completely ignorant 99% of all the spectators

And a good percentage of the umpires -- including some who post here.

[Double Up]

shots fired!  LOL

I merely ask the difficult questions... hahaha 

 

[Biscuit]

On 10/17/2018 at 12:33 PM, noumpere said:

Legal, of course.

 

Please come to the umpire rooms where I umpire...

I was in the field, and runner breaks for second (still on sure if it was the fact that it was young players, or if it was the coach pulling some Bush stuff in a blow out), prompting the pitcher to do an inside move. In between innings, my partner told me I'd missed a balk on the inside move (??? call it then?) , citing the throw to an unoccupied base. I was 90% I was right, and told him as much. In between that game and the next, I asked all of the other umpires at the part of the complex (probably 8 or so) and all of them agreed that it was a balk. Came back the next night with rule reference in hand, still couldn't convince any of them. 

Kinda shocks me. Some of them know the rules pretty well, and, at least for a rec league, they're generally pretty good umpires. 

[maven]

4 hours ago, Biscuit said:

Some of them know the rules pretty well, and, at least for a rec league, they're generally pretty good umpires.

Apparently not. This is pretty basic, even for rec ball.

[Biscuit]

58 minutes ago, maven said:

Apparently not. This is pretty basic, even for rec ball.

Yeah, it shocks me. I’ve heard some pretty intricate rules disscussions... really shook my faith in my rules knowledge until I looked it up. 

[Senor Azul]

From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.22, p. 104):

“Official Baseball Rule 6.02(a)(4) provides that the pitcher be charged with a balk if, while in contact with the rubber, he throws to an unoccupied base except for the purpose of making a play.”

Play 1:  Runners on first and second, pitcher in set position. Runner breaks for third base and pitcher throws to third base.

Ruling 1:  Legal play.

Play 2:  Runners on first and second, pitcher in set position. Runner bluffs going to third base and pitcher throws to third base. However, runner did not go.

Ruling 2:  Balk under Official Baseball Rule 6.02(a)(4).

“The key to understanding the above two plays is for the umpire to use good judgment in deciding whether or not the runner on the previous base demonstrates or otherwise creates an impression of his intent to advance to such unoccupied base…”

[Senor Azul]

From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules and Interpretations Manual (p. 105):

“The determination of whether a pitcher is making a play is the judgment of the umpires. If a pitcher throws or feints to an unoccupied base because he believes the runner is attempting to steal that base, but the runner only took a few steps in that direction and stops; this is not making a legitimate play on the runner and should be called a balk. If the pitcher throws or feints to an unoccupied second base when a runner attempts to steal that base, no balk should be called, even if the runner stops and returns or gets into a rundown.”

[Jimurray]

24 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules and Interpretations Manual (p. 105):

“The determination of whether a pitcher is making a play is the judgment of the umpires. If a pitcher throws or feints to an unoccupied base because he believes the runner is attempting to steal that base, but the runner only took a few steps in that direction and stops; this is not making a legitimate play on the runner and should be called a balk. If the pitcher throws or feints to an unoccupied second base when a runner attempts to steal that base, no balk should be called, even if the runner stops and returns or gets into a rundown.”

That’s from 2013. I think a later interp allows for giving the impression or something like that. 

[Senor Azul]

Do you mean like in my first post from the 2018 MiBUM?-- The key to understanding the above two plays is for the umpire to use good judgment in deciding whether or not the runner on the previous base demonstrates or otherwise creates an impression of his intent to advance to such unoccupied base (emphasis added)