Bunt

[Guest Mike Parker]

Batters squares to bunt, bunts ball right in front of plate, ball takes a high bounce, batters starts for first takes one step in front of plate and makes contact with ball; whats the call?

 

 

[Jimurray]

11 minutes ago, Guest Mike Parker said:

Batters squares to bunt, bunts ball right in front of plate, ball takes a high bounce, batters starts for first takes one step in front of plate and makes contact with ball; whats the call?

 

 

He’s out in OBR unless the contact was in foul territory. In FED (HS) and NCAA (college) we would need to know where the back foot was doing when the contact happened. 

[Senor Azul]

I think the following is the current FED interpretation of a batter being in the box when hit by a batted ball—

2015 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 16: The batter legally contacts the pitch with his bat and his lead foot then lands on the ground outside of the batter’s box. The batted ball contacts the ground in front of home plate and spins back, contacting the batter’s leg that is outside the batter’s box. RULING: This is a foul ball. With one foot still in the batter’s box, the batter is considered to be in the batter’s box at the time he was contacted by the batted ball. (2-16-1g)

But that seems to conflict with a current case book play--

2018 Case Book Play 8.4.1 Situation B:  B1 squares to bunt and hits the pitch. The batted ball bounces off the plate and hits B1’s (a) leg or, (b) bat a second time while B1 is holding the bat in the batter’s box (no foot is entirely outside of the batter’s box). Ruling:  In (a), it is a foul ball. In (b), the ball is foul unless, in the umpire’s judgment, the ball was contacted intentionally, in which case the ball would be dead and B1 declared out.

 

[Tborze]

How?

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, Tborze said:

How?

With one foot still in the batter’s box, the batter is considered to be in the batter’s box at the time he was contacted by the batted ball

Versus

no foot is entirely outside of the batter’s box

[Tborze]

6 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

With one foot still in the batter’s box, the batter is considered to be in the batter’s box at the time he was contacted by the batted ball

Versus

no foot is entirely outside of the batter’s box

Ah!  But they threw in the "intentional" part. I don't see a conflict here. IMO

[Richvee]

The conflict is...What if the batter has a foot on the ground in the box and a foot on the ground out of the box and the ball hits him or his bat a second time  

 

 

[grayhawk]

2 hours ago, Richvee said:

The conflict is...What if the batter has a foot on the ground in the box and a foot on the ground out of the box and the ball hits him or his bat a second time  

 

 

I take "(no foot is entirely outside of the batter’s box)" in the second case play to mean that this was not an illegally batted ball.  Unless the batter has completely left the batter's box when the ball hits him, it's a foul ball in Fed (as the first case play illustrates).

[Aging_Arbiter]

I need a completely empty box behind him before I get an out on this.

[Senor Azul]

From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules and Interpretations Manual (section 9.3.1b, p. 176):

“If any portion of either foot is outside of the lines of his batter’s box when a fair ball contacts him or his bat over fair territory, this is interference.”

So, I am able to find interpretations for FED and OBR defining when a batter has left his box. But I cannot find anything for the NCAA other than these rules--

NCAA rule 2 Illegally Batted Ball

SECTION 44. A ball hit by the batter with one or both feet on the ground and entirely outside the batter’s box, or a ball hit with an illegal bat (see 1-12 and 7-10)

2018 NCAA 7-11m. After hitting or bunting a fair ball, a bat still in the batter’s hand(s) hits the ball a second time in fair territory after he has left the batter’s box. The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter-runner drops the bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and there was no intent to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is live and in play;

Are these NCAA rules what you based your answer on, Mr. Jimurray? Or is there an interpretation somewhere that I missed?

 

 

 

[Aging_Arbiter]

Here is the interp from the Little League Rules Instruction Manual.  This is why an earlier response of mine on this subject, I had indicated I need to have en "empty box" behind him before I make the interference call.

 

(f ) a fair ball touches said batter before touching a fielder;

INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS: When this happens it is almost always as a batter leaves the batter’s box. Make sure the batter is entirely out of the batter’s box when you call this, otherwise, call "foul ball".

[Jimurray]

26 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules and Interpretations Manual (section 9.3.1b, p. 176):

“If any portion of either foot is outside of the lines of his batter’s box when a fair ball contacts him or his bat over fair territory, this is interference.”

So, I am able to find interpretations for FED and OBR defining when a batter has left his box. But I cannot find anything for the NCAA other than these rules--

NCAA rule 2 Illegally Batted Ball

SECTION 44. A ball hit by the batter with one or both feet on the ground and entirely outside the batter’s box, or a ball hit with an illegal bat (see 1-12 and 7-10)

2018 NCAA 7-11m. After hitting or bunting a fair ball, a bat still in the batter’s hand(s) hits the ball a second time in fair territory after he has left the batter’s box. The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter-runner drops the bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and there was no intent to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is live and in play;

Are these NCAA rules what you based your answer on, Mr. Jimurray? Or is there an interpretation somewhere that I missed?

 

 

 

Until OBR defined a legal position in the box circa 2012 I believe trained umpires would call it a foul ball in all codes if the batter was leaving the box but still had contact with the rear foot. FED had a rule and interp that no foot out of the box was in the box. The NCAA rule was: 

"Foul Ball
SECTION 7. A foul ball is a legally batted ball that:

e.    Hits the batter in the batter’s box, or hits the dirt or home plate and then hits
the batter or the bat, which is in the hand or hands of the batter, while in the
batter’s box; or"

But I'm not aware of any NCAA interp that defines in the box. But my 2012 BRD does reference the OBR change to the "legal position" as being now different than FED and NCAA and also says that NCAA is "in effect: same as FED." In practical application in other than OBR I find using the rear foot touching the box has the same effect as no foot out of the box when things are happening quickly.