Out ruling

[Guest Hugo]

Dear Sirs,
Can you please answer/explain these 2 scenarios for me?!

Scenario 1
2 outs, runners on 3B and 1B, fielders choice, runner on 3B scores before they get 3rd out at 2B or 1B.
Does the score still count?

Scenario 2
2 outs, runners on 3B and 1B, fielders choice, bad throw to 1B, runners on 3B scores but they still get the runner on 2B.
Does the score still count?

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Regards,
Hugo

[MDFinny]

no to both. The runners being forced must reach their next base.

[Mudisfun]

Hugo,

Both of your scenarios are essentially the same as the 3rd out is made by a forced runner who failed to achieve the base they were forced to. The timing of R3 scoring does not matter in either case, so 3 outs, no run scores.

Change your second scenario a little... R3 crosses home. R1 achieves 2nd base just prior to the throw and is safe but he over-runs 2nd and is immediately tagged for the out. Now you have a time play since the force on R1 was removed by him getting to 2nd safely. Now the question is did R3 touch home prior to R1 being tagged out.

See the difference?

[Guest Hugo]

10 minutes ago, MDFinny said:

no to both. The runners being forced must reach their next base.

Thanks for the quick reply MDFinny.

Scenario 3
2 outs, runners on 3B and 1B, fielders choice to 2B, runner to 1B beats the thrown, runners on 3B scores,  but they get the other runner running between 2B - 3B, they get him out.
Does the score still count?

[Guest Hugo]

8 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

Hugo,

Both of your scenarios are essentially the same as the 3rd out is made by a forced runner who failed to achieve the base they were forced to. The timing of R3 scoring does not matter in either case, so 3 outs, no run scores.

Change your second scenario a little... R3 crosses home. R1 achieves 2nd base just prior to the throw and is safe but he over-runs 2nd and is immediately tagged for the out. Now you have a time play since the force on R1 was removed by him getting to 2nd safely. Now the question is did R3 touch home prior to R1 being tagged out.

See the difference?

Okay. Understood.

Thank you very much Mudisfun.

Appreciate the quick reply.

[maven]

44 minutes ago, Guest Hugo said:

Scenario 3
2 outs, runners on 3B and 1B, fielders choice to 2B, runner to 1B beats the thrown, runners on 3B scores,  but they get the other runner running between 2B - 3B, they get him out.
Does the score still count? 

Yes. This is not a force out, so it's a time play: if R3 scores before the 3rd out, his run counts.

[beerguy55]

16 hours ago, Guest Hugo said:

Dear Sirs,
Can you please answer/explain these 2 scenarios for me?!

Scenario 1
2 outs, runners on 3B and 1B, fielders choice, runner on 3B scores before they get 3rd out at 2B or 1B.
Does the score still count?

Scenario 2
2 outs, runners on 3B and 1B, fielders choice, bad throw to 1B, runners on 3B scores but they still get the runner on 2B.
Does the score still count?

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Regards,
Hugo

Be careful on your terminology.   "Fielder's choice" does not denote that the fielder has a choice...it denotes that the fielder chose to make a play on a runner instead of a batter, and their choice allowed the batter to reach base safely.  It's a past tense condition, not future/present.   In scenario 1, taking the runner at second is a fielder's choice...taking the batter is not.

Scenario 2 depends on when they got the runner at second base...did they get him before he reached it for the first time...or did they get him as he rounded it and he was diving back...one the run doesn't score, the other it does.