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end of game

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Guest john

15 u game score tied in the bottom of the 7th two outs,runner on 3rd full count on the batter.On the pitch runner on 3rd breaks for the plate in an attempt to steal home,the pitch is ball 4 and in the dirt and the runner slides in safely to home.The batter runner only takes 3 or 4 steps towards first and turns to celebrate with his teammates and never touches first base.What is the call. 

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Was the game played under FED (see Maven) or OBR (see below)?

The umpire should direct the BR to first.  If he refuses, call him out and go to the next inning.  See this from OBR:

 

(b) When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation
game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result
of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases
full which forces the batter and all other runners to advance
without liability of being put out, the umpire shall not declare
the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third
has touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first
base.


PENALTY: If the runner on third refuses to advance to
and touch home base in a reasonable time, the umpire
shall disallow the run, call out the offending player and
order the game resumed. If, with two out, the batter-runner
refuses to advance to and touch first base, the
umpire shall disallow the run, call out the offending
player, and order the game resumed.

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1 hour ago, noumpere said:

Was the game played under FED (see Maven) or OBR (see below)?

The umpire should direct the BR to first.  If he refuses, call him out and go to the next inning.  See this from OBR:

 

(b) When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation
game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result
of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases
full which forces the batter and all other runners to advance
without liability of being put out, the umpire shall not declare
the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third
has touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first
base.


PENALTY: If the runner on third refuses to advance to
and touch home base in a reasonable time, the umpire
shall disallow the run, call out the offending player and
order the game resumed. If, with two out, the batter-runner
refuses to advance to and touch first base, the
umpire shall disallow the run, call out the offending
player, and order the game resumed.

Why should the umpire direct the BR to first base?

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1 hour ago, noumpere said:

Because the rule says “refuses to advance.”  That implies a direction that is not followed

Doesn't the rule apply only with bases loaded? I don't see why we would require the batter to go to 1B with only R3

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1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

Doesn't the rule apply only with bases loaded? I don't see why we would require the batter to go to 1B with only R3

This^^^^^^ ??

Run scored on a WP/PB. Not because R3 was forced to advance on the BB.

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2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Doesn't the rule apply only with bases loaded? I don't see why we would require the batter to go to 1B with only R3

Yes.  Apparently I misread the play.

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22 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Yes.  Apparently I misread the play.

But what appeal is @maven  Waiting for? The BR could miss 1B if he went there but can he miss it if he doesn't go there.

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55 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

But what appeal is @maven  Waiting for? The BR could miss 1B if he went there but can he miss it if he doesn't go there.

Since it’s ball 4 doesn’t the batter become a BR and can be put our on appeal to first for not legally acquiring the base?

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5 minutes ago, stkjock said:

Since it’s ball 4 doesn’t the batter become a BR and can be put our on appeal to first for not legally acquiring the base?

I think he can be put out for missing it but how would this be appealed? He has all the time in the world to touch 1B. There is an esoteric desertion out if he doesn't and enters the dugout. To me it's game over as it would be on ball 3. 

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On 7/14/2018 at 10:55 PM, Jimurray said:

I think he can be put out for missing it but how would this be appealed? He has all the time in the world to touch 1B. There is an esoteric desertion out if he doesn't and enters the dugout. To me it's game over as it would be on ball 3. 

This is not a time play.  Because there are 2 outs the run can be negated on a force out...the BR never gets to first. If it was ball 3 the game would be over because he is not "forced" to first

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I think there are reasons why the abandonment only applies after reaching first base (and, yeah, there should be some language for a batter who enters DBT before reaching first base), and I think the difference in the play above between bases full and just R3 comes in this piece of language in OBR.

"A batter
who is entitled to first base because of a base on balls, including
an award of first base to a batter by an umpire following a signal
from a manager, must go to first base and touch the base before
other base runners are forced to advance."

This, to me, is why a batter, on a bases loaded end of game walk, must touch first...that's the only way to engage the force that allows R3 to score.

 

As far as the play above...we must use common sense, and understand the spirit of the game.  As has been stated many times, the rules were written by gentlemen for gentlemen.  The game never meant there to be a technicality on a runner scoring on a wild pitch/passed ball/straight steal for ball one, two or three, but different on ball four.

 

 

btw - calling a steal of home when the batter has a two strike count is about the stupidest thing anyone can do.

 

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7 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

As far as the play above...we must use common sense, and understand the spirit of the game.  As has been stated many times, the rules were written by gentlemen for gentlemen.  The game never meant there to be a technicality on a runner scoring on a wild pitch/passed ball/straight steal for ball one, two or three, but different on ball four.

I totally agree. This rule has caused a lot of problems. I remember a situation in GA last year where they appealed a walk-off situation and it delayed the entire playoff  https://usatodayhss.com/2017/ghsa-appeal-johns-creek-lee-county-baseball  The umpires were correct and followed the rules to the letter, however, that did not stop the death threats.....

Its out-of-hand. We need to apply some common sense every now and again,

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