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Call at the plate


Guest Chris

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1 minute ago, Rich Ives said:

He can ask.   Don't hold your breath for a favorable response.

Yes, but keep in mind, whether he made a bad call or not, most times the guy five feet from the plate has a better view than the guy 80 feet away.  Unless something really egregious the optics of changing that call aren't good.   And that's before considering the possibility/probability that his partner is paying attention to the other base runners at the time of the play at the plate.

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No such thing as a "bad call", you mean a call a coach does not agree with.

Unless its something like a ball squirting loose possibly out of the umps view, no way as a PU I can envision a play where I would go to my BU on a play at the plate.

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Generally (we’re talking about 99.9% of the time) not. Plays at the plate are typically the domain of the Plate Umpire (or attending Base Umpire in the event of a rotation).

@Mudder did mention one of those rare plays where asking the calling umpire (PU, in most cases) to discuss with the other umpire(s) may be considered. This would be for a tag play wherein the ball is not in possession, and the PU was so fixated on the tag action, he didn’t see the ball come out or absent until after he’s called “Out”.

I’ve been witness to this before; I was the BU while my PU was at 1BLX on a tag at the plate and called it way too fast... while the uncaught ball was obscured from him by the F2’s body.

Another play at the plate that may invoke a call or consult with the other umpires is a missed Rules violation, specifically illegal slide or non-avoidance of contact. Some leagues and tournaments will have a modified Rule that head-first slides at the plate are not allowed, and the PU will so fixated on the tag / no tag action, the head-first slide won’t register as illegal. So too, the PU may be so focused on tracking the throw that he doesn’t see the runner initiate contact – or target – upon the catcher (or fielder at the plate). The other umpire(s), away from the play, may have a better view of the entire sequence, and/or know that that was a Rules violation.

I’ve been witness to one of each of these, too. But consider, I’ve worked well over 3500 games in my 10 years of umpiring, and only been a part or privy to _3_ of these occurrences. In each case, the correct call was ultimately made, not a “bad call made good.”

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The plate ump really has to want the help.

Had a play in HS playoffs where a kid was coming home and the throw took the catcher up the 3B line where he had to reach up for the ball and back towards home to swipe the sliding runner - the catcher ended up right between the PU and the sliding runner, he called the runner out and then time and pretty much immediately went to conference with the field ump (3 man crew) and they both had angles with no tag, reversed the call. It went against our team, but and some of the fans went crazy, but it worked the way it was supposed to, and I'm pretty sure they got it right. Kudos to the PU and crew.

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4 hours ago, Guest Chris said:

If an umpire makes a bad call at the plate, can the manager request an appeal to another umpire?

Well he can, but it's almost always ridiculous to do so. As other posters have insinuated, this question is usually motivated by a disagreement in the judgment call. That's never sufficient reason to request that the umpires get together.

The only exception is not a question of judgment, but rather one where the call is obviously wrong to everyone in the park. If the ball is rolling on the ground and PU has an out, then, and only in that extreme situation, would it be proper to ask them to get together (if the BU isn't already coming in).

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Yes, but keep in mind, whether he made a bad call or not, most times the guy five feet from the plate has a better view than the guy 80 feet away.  Unless something really egregious the optics of changing that call aren't good.   And that's before considering the possibility/probability that his partner is paying attention to the other base runners at the time of the play at the plate.

Cool...now do check swing appeals from B & C 🤙


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If the suggestion is that BU overruling PU on a safe/out at the plate is akin to BU ruling on check swings in B/C position, the comparison is inapt.

I would (almost*) never overrule PU on a safe/out. I would always rule on check swings in B/C position. That's also pro instruction (and instruction at every level).

*Exception noted above.

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Hmm, bad according to who? I had a coach this year yell, “That’s a bad call!” from the 3B dugout on a play at first base. It wasn’t even that close and I’m 100% sure I got it right. My partners agreed with my call too. “Bad” is in the eye of the beholder, and the beholder is wrong much of the time.

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Chris: You got a lot of responses from qualified and experienced Umpires. Let me answer your question specifically. “Can a Manager request an appeal to another Umpire?”

 

The short answer is “no”. If you think a call is in error, and try to go to the other Umpire, you will not be successful. Here’s why: The Rules specifically forbid the “other” Umpire to interfere with another Umpires’ call unless asked to by the Umpire that made the original call. Simple as that.

 

Now, the longer answer. You can go to the original Umpire and ask him to check with his partner. Then, it’s up to him whether he wants to or not. If he does, he’s only going to ask for help on the call. Then, after getting more information, he can (1) change his call, or (2) stick with the original call. Notice, the other Umpire didn’t overrule him; he’s not allowed to do that, remember? He just gave him more information. And, if he says “nope”, you’re stuck with the call.

 

Got it? If you don’t like a call, stay away from the other Umpire; he’s going to look at you like you’re speaking Klingon. He’s forbidden to interfere.

 

Hope we answered your question.  

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On 6/15/2018 at 4:38 PM, Rich Ives said:

What are you ingesting?

I guess I forgot my "tongue in cheek" emoji

As a BU, the only time a PU came to me on a play at the plate was when he had a violent sneeze just as the tag was being applied.   He made no call and immediately called me in, told me what happened, and asked "please tell me you got a good look at that", I said ya I did, he was easily out.

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