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LMSANS

Check Swing Appeal or not

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Opening day is tomorrow for NJ HS.  Here is part of an email from our association interpreter, a very opinionated individual...

We do not go to our partner on a check swing because the coach has requested it.  We can go to our partner IMMEDIATELY if needed.  We all must be consistent in this mechanic all the time.  Coaches have told me and umpires that some umpires still go when requested by coach.  Please stop that and be consistent and the coaches will understand better and not ask.

While I know that we are not required to in HS, but I have always done it as long as the coach hasn't been a d!ck about it.

 

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I disagree with his direction on this.  What's the downside of going when asked?

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1. Telling a coach "no" when asked is just asking for a fight (unless he's being a dick and asking for everything, and we're going to fight anyway)

2. Anytime I can get a Strike out of a Ball is a good thing.

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I don't work FED. Does the rulebook address checked swing appeals? If a coach is not prohibited from asking the PU to get help, why shouldn't a coach be allowed to ask, along the lines of "if it's not illegal, it's legal."

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2 hours ago, LRZ said:

I don't work FED. Does the rulebook address checked swing appeals? If a coach is not prohibited from asking the PU to get help, why shouldn't a coach be allowted to ask, along the lines of "if it's not illegal, it's legal."

The manual gives PU the option not to check with BU. PU should never use this option (even in NJ) for any sincere request.

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4 minutes ago, maven said:

The manual gives PU the option not to check with BU. PU should never use this option (even in NJ) for any sincere request.

Such rules and mechanics were among the many reasons that I stopped working Fed ball, lo, these many years ago....

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I don't know what to say. :shakehead:

All I can say is. I wouldn't change a thing. If this guy took me to task for asking on a check swing, I'd tell him, F2 asked me to go for help. Your directive said nothing about players asking.

Interpreters making up rules/mechanics.....sad.

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3 hours ago, Richvee said:

Interpreters making up rules/mechanics.....sad.

Chapter interpreters are taking their marching orders from the same guy who brought us this:

If they deviate from the company line they risk losing their state finals assignments status as interpreters.

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8 hours ago, Richvee said:

I don't know what to say. :shakehead:

All I can say is. I wouldn't change a thing. If this guy took me to task for asking on a check swing, I'd tell him, F2 asked me to go for help. Your directive said nothing about players asking.

Interpreters making up rules/mechanics.....sad.

I actually asked this question and his response was "If we don’t do it for the coach what do you think"

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2 hours ago, LMSANS said:

I actually asked this question and his response was "If we don’t do it for the coach what do you think"

Well, in about 3 hours when the regular season opens, I'll be going to my partner on a check swing when asked. 

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13 hours ago, Richvee said:

Well, in about 3 hours when the regular season opens, I'll be going to my partner on a check swing when asked. 

Update: Opening day plate in the books. 4 requests on check swings, 4 times I went to my partner.. Result, 2 quiet HC's  and a nice morning on the ball field in the sun.

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On 3/30/2018 at 7:21 PM, LRZ said:

Such rules and mechanics were among the many reasons that I stopped working Fed ball, lo, these many years ago....

What levels do you work now? 

Back to the OP, the directive is stupid, because it is contrary to accepted practice in other levels (NCAA, MiLB, MLB all require PU to check with U1 (or U3) on a half swing when requested by the catcher or manager). I would check whenever requested, personally. 

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5 hours ago, Richvee said:

Update: Opening day plate in the books. 4 requests on check swings, 4 times I went to my partner.. Result, 2 quiet HC's  and a nice morning on the ball field in the sun.

Wha... what fun is that?!

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9 hours ago, ElkOil said:

Wha... what fun is that?!

I did have one coach whinning about F2 not having both feet in the catcher's box on an 0-2 outside pitch. So I did have that going for me....guess who was losing? 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Richvee said:

I did have one coach whinning about F2 not having both feet in the catcher's box on an 0-2 outside pitch. So I did have that going for me....guess who was losing? 

 

 

 

 

From the sound of this complaint? You. Lol

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I personally don't want to cause a game to start that slow swirl down the drain just because I didn't ask on a check swing. That's a booger I'm not picking.

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Ahh...the difference a month makes...here is a follow up email received from the same individual:

Because of inconsistent practice and not ever going to be a consistent mechanic regardless of NJSIAA or anyone else we must change the check swing mechanic.  Here is the guidelines for it starting today and moving forward>

1. try to make your own call as the plate umpire - use sound judgement
2. if blocked out or for any valid reason go for help immediately to your partner
3. if you do not call it an attempt and coach asks you to check then go ahead and check with your partner but be ready and ok with it if he does say he went
4. do not go as a habit for help - only when you truely need it
5. if the coach starts asking too much then hae a quiet 1 on 1 conversation with him and explain that it can't be a regular thing
6. if you call it a strike because he went - it can't be changed - once called a strike stays a strike
7. go over the procedure in your parking lot pregame
8. never go to partner in A position with a lefty batter
9. when partner is in B or C its tough for him to make a good judgement so as a simple rule of thumb if you think he attempted to try to hit it and pulled back too late go with the "he went"
10  hope this solves the problem for us and games go on

I don't know anything about a problem.

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45 minutes ago, LMSANS said:

8. never go to partner in A position with a lefty batter

Well.it's better than last month, but I disagree with this. (assuming 2 man)

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1 hour ago, Richvee said:

Well.it's better than last month, but I disagree with this. (assuming 2 man)

That was the one that stuck out to me, too. I'd like to know what guideline the interpreter uses to determine an attempt. I'm guessing this interpreter needs a refresher of the rules.

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3 hours ago, LMSANS said:

Ahh...the difference a month makes...here is a follow up email received from the same individual:

Because of inconsistent practice and not ever going to be a consistent mechanic regardless of NJSIAA or anyone else we must change the check swing mechanic.  Here is the guidelines for it starting today and moving forward>

1. try to make your own call as the plate umpire - use sound judgement
2. if blocked out or for any valid reason go for help immediately to your partner
3. if you do not call it an attempt and coach asks you to check then go ahead and check with your partner but be ready and ok with it if he does say he went
4. do not go as a habit for help - only when you truely need it
5. if the coach starts asking too much then hae a quiet 1 on 1 conversation with him and explain that it can't be a regular thing
6. if you call it a strike because he went - it can't be changed - once called a strike stays a strike
7. go over the procedure in your parking lot pregame
8. never go to partner in A position with a lefty batter
9. when partner is in B or C its tough for him to make a good judgement so as a simple rule of thumb if you think he attempted to try to hit it and pulled back too late go with the "he went"
10  hope this solves the problem for us and games go on

I don't know anything about a problem.

Strongly disagree with #8. 

 

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41 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Strongly disagree with #8. 

 

Seconded. In 2-man, your partner in A is the only person you have, so you don't have a choice.  He may be better able to see if a lefty made an attempt than you, if the checked swing happened on an outside pitch or another pitch where you can't see the ball and the attempted  swing at the same time. 

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On 4/29/2018 at 8:07 PM, ilyazhito said:

Seconded. In 2-man, your partner in A is the only person you have, so you don't have a choice.  He may be better able to see if a lefty made an attempt than you, if the checked swing happened on an outside pitch or another pitch where you can't see the ball and the attempted  swing at the same time. 

You could always ask the 3rd base coach

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