Coach Thinks ENTIRE Batter's Box is FOUL

[FleasOf1000Camels]

I train and supervise the high school kids my small town uses to umpire house ball for kids up to age 11.  This play happened during a game I was watching 2-3 weeks ago, and I only got involved because the umpires disagreed with each other, and this particular coach announced that he was playing the remainder of the game under protest.  Our local rules say all protests will de decided on the field by a league officer, so I stepped in and ruled.

Here's the play:  Batter swings WAY late, and hits ball straight down.  Ball lands just behind plate, the dribbles forward across the plate, coming to rest in the extreme upper-left corner of the left-hander's batters box.  Batter-runner is VERY slow in getting out of the box, catcher picks up the ball and throws to first for an easy out.  Let's be perfectly clear: the ball was most certainly in fair territory when it came to rest and was first touched, and NOBODY thinks the batted ball hit the batter.  There were no questions regarding obstruction or interference.  The plate umpire properly pointed the ball fair, and the base umpire did nothing, other than signal out once the throw was completed.

OC then goes to plate ump and tells him that the ball was foul since it was in the batter's box.  Plate ump (who is in his first year) goes to confer with his partner (who has a couple years experience).  Base guy (not the sharpest tool in the shed) says he 'thinks' coach is right...batter's box is foul ground.  Plate kid still thinks his original call is correct, but now he's doubting himself, and the coaches are shouting at each other across the field.  That's when I got involved. After listening to both umpire's description and getting the coaches to calm down, my ruling was pretty simple.  Fair ball. Batter out at first. Play ball. Try and act like civilized human beings.

OC corners me after the game.  Wants me to cite the rule that says that part of the batter's box is fair ground.  I tell him I doubt if any such cite exists, because it would be redundant...the rule says anything on or inside the foul line is fair, and part of the box is inside the foul lines.  Told him it would be like finding a ground rule at Progressive Field that says a fly ball hit into the trees beyond RC field is a home run...any ball that goes into those trees had to go over the wall first, and was already a home run.  He just doesn't get it, keeps getting confused because a batted ball that hits the batter inside the box is foul...my response apples are not oranges. Also confused because on a properly lined field (as ours were) there is no foul line drawn through the box.

Now every time I see this guy, he gives me crap about "have you found that rule cite yet?"  I've searched, and searched...just as I suspected can't find any cite or decision that covers this.  Can anybody out there find something so I can shut this butthead up?

[Thatsnotyou]

This is easy, no? If the guy is going to act like a child, treat him like a child. Why not actually take him to a field, draw a line from the back plate all the way to the base, then place the ball in that corner of the box, and ask him what side of the line its on?

This could also be done by taking your fed rule book, flipping to page 7, and showing him the graphic in the top left hand corner - it has the batters boxes and actually has the lines drawn all the way to the corner of the plate.

I'd then put the onus on him to cite you the rule that says that the entire batter's box is considered foul ground.

[stevis]

If this happened in my LL (where I do the same job you're doing, so you have my respect and empathy), I would be looking at the field diagrams in Rule 1.   It would be Diagram 2 in the 2017 LL rule book.  Not sure what your house league would have to point at.

[noumpere]

I would use some quotes from J/R or Evans or Wendelstadt or whoever that show that "when a batter is hit by a batted ball in the box it's a foul ball, even if the contact occurs in fair territory" to show that THIS rule is the exception, and, thus, "a ball on the ground in the box" is NOT the exception.

[beerguy55]

Referencing OBR - Diagram of field showing foul lines going through batter's boxes on Page 154, Appendix 2

And then page 143

FAIR TERRITORY is that part of the playing field within, and including the first base and third base lines, from home base to the bottom of the playing field fence and perpendicularly upwards. All foul lines are in fair territory.

And then page 144

FOUL TERRITORY is that part of the playing field outside the first and third base lines extended to the fence and perpendicularly upwards.

 

The diagram of the field in the appendix, and the two definitions of fair and foul territory (as well as the definitions of fair and foul ball) very clearly support your position.

It is up to him to cite a rule that states the entire box is foul territory.

[KenBAZ]

Batted ball hits batter while he is in the batters box. The ball is dead right? Not foul? The proper verbage is "Time"! Not "foul"?

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, KenBAZ said:

Batted ball hits batter while he is in the batters box. The ball is dead right? Not foul? The proper verbage is "Time"! Not "foul"?

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
 

Proper call for PU would be "foul" assuming proper criteria. Proper call by BU if PU didn't have it would be "time" if PU did not see it although most of the time as BU you could safely call "foul". 

[noumpere]

14 hours ago, KenBAZ said:

Batted ball hits batter while he is in the batters box. The ball is dead right? Not foul?
 

Yes, the ball is dead.  It's also foul.

[Aging_Arbiter]

I was always taught that the BU calls "time".  This way, if HPU didn't see it, you have not ruled out the option (not being able to un-ring the bell) of him getting an out (for batter being out of the box), where as , HP call WOULD be "foul".

[beerguy55]

19 hours ago, KenBAZ said:

Batted ball hits batter while he is in the batters box. The ball is dead right? Not foul? The proper verbage is "Time"! Not "foul"?

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
 

This has started becoming a growing point of confusion with newer score keepers who are using Game Changer to track all pitches.   There's no "Time" or "dead ball" option on a pitch, and then they're wondering how the batter got to two strikes.   No matter how many times I say "it's a foul ball" they keep saying "the ump didn't say that".

I'm pretty sure these people would drive into a lake if their GPS told them to.

[Aging_Arbiter]

5 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

I'm pretty sure these people would drive into a lake if their GPS told them to.