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umpire actions - dropped 3rd strike


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1 hour ago, scrounge said:

Make a "safe" signal with the arms and - more importantly - say "NO CATCH". Remember, the two people who most need to know, the batter and catcher, are facing away from you.

Conversely, when the batter does not become a runner on an uncaught third strike, the umpire should signal an out, saying "Batter's out!"

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3 hours ago, scrounge said:

Make a "safe" signal with the arms and - more importantly - say "NO CATCH". Remember, the two people who most need to know, the batter and catcher, are facing away from you.

Is this a real mechanic?  And, since the batter and catcher are facing away from you, why signal "safe"?  Who's seeing it?

If the BR is out, he's out!  "Batters out". If not, there is nothing to call until he is out. If players don't hear anything, play ball!

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2 minutes ago, Tborze said:

Is this a real mechanic?  And, since the batter and catcher are facing away from you, why signal "safe"?  Who's seeing it?

If the BR is out, he's out!  "Batters out". If not, there is nothing to call until he is out. If players don't hear anything, play ball!

NO CATCH accompanies the safe signal to alert the batter and catcher

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2 minutes ago, Tborze said:

Is this a real mechanic?  And, since the batter and catcher are facing away from you, why signal "safe"?  Who's seeing it?

If the BR is out, he's out!  "Batters out". If not, there is nothing to call until he is out. If players don't hear anything, play ball!

Yes, it's a real mechanic.  It tells anyone and everyone  (your partner,  for one) that the third strike wasn't caught, and that the BR can attempt to reach 1B.

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Signalling a strike and saying NOTHING tells everyone, including my partner, the ball is still live!  If the BR can advance, he can.

If NOT, "batters out". Signalling with a  fist and verbally stating,  "batters out, batters out"  

And, the OP was vague on the situation. 

As I said before, what is the purpose of a safe signal when the batter and catcher, who is "the two people who most need to know", aren't even looking at you?

Is it really for the fans?

 

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50 minutes ago, MT73 said:

On an uncaught 3rd strike  the Jim Evan's manual shows the PU pointing to the ground and saying, "Strike 3. Ball is down." 

I don't like that, simply because "down" sounds too much like "out" if you're not paying close attention.

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I use 1(left) arm straight out as a signal to my partner and say no catch loud enough for catcher and hitter. I hold the left arm out until the tag is made by the catcher or the BR reaches the 45' mark. I also step out to which ever side is open to see the play.

Not sure where I picked that up. I have seen the right arm out, but it looks like some guy's strike calls (especially on a swinging 3K). Not sure if it 'proper by the book' but it works well for me.

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3 minutes ago, maineump said:

I use 1(left) arm straight out as a signal to my partner and say no catch loud enough for catcher and hitter. I hold the left arm out until the tag is made by the catcher or the BR reaches the 45' mark. I also step out to which ever side is open to see the play.

Not sure where I picked that up. I have seen the right arm out, but it looks like some guy's strike calls (especially on a swinging 3K). Not sure if it 'proper by the book' but it works well for me.

Because it really is just you holding your strike call.

I hold my strike call and usually just say no catch no catch... and then let the fun begin.

 

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12 hours ago, scrounge said:

Make a "safe" signal with the arms and - more importantly - say "NO CATCH". Remember, the two people who most need to know, the batter and catcher, are facing away from you.

I think that's the "old" mechanics (but, imo, it's better than the new one, and it still works).  I forget exactly what they are teaching now.

11 hours ago, ElkOil said:

Conversely, when the batter does not become a runner on an uncaught third strike, the umpire should signal an out, saying "Batter's out!"

That's only if BR is (erroneously) trying for first.  If the BR is not trying for first, you don't need to say anything. (IOW, don't say "batter's out on every K or every D3K)

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9 hours ago, Tborze said:

Signalling a strike and saying NOTHING tells everyone, including my partner, the ball is still live!  If the BR can advance, he can.

If NOT, "batters out". Signalling with a  fist and verbally stating,  "batters out, batters out"  

And, the OP was vague on the situation. 

As I said before, what is the purpose of a safe signal when the batter and catcher, who is "the two people who most need to know", aren't even looking at you?

Is it really for the fans?

 

If all you do is signal a strike and say nothing, the infielders and your partner may have no idea if it was caught or uncaught. Of course, the majority of obvious catch/no catch situations will be fine - but what about those in between? Unless you're saying "batter's out" for every caught 3rd strike, how will they know? The batter and catcher are the two who *most* need to know. They're by no means the *only* ones who need to know.

 

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The year after the Doug Eddings uncaught third strike fiasco in the 2005 ALCS, we were fortunate enough to have a MLB umpire speak to our group. At the time he told us that a new signal had been adopted for this play (whereas previously there was NO special signal). The umpire was to point with the right hand, holding the arm straight out to the side, to indicate the strike. Even if you were a guy who used the hammer, point. The reason being that there wouldn't be any confusion between your hammer strike signal and your hammer out signal. While doing this verbalize, "No catch".

The right hand point was to be held out as the play resolved itself (I can't remember if it was until the batter-runner reached first or was put out, or just until he exited the dirt circle around home plate).

Maybe something's changed since then, but I still see some MLB umpires use this signal in games today.

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2 hours ago, BretMan said:

The year after the Doug Eddings uncaught third strike fiasco in the 2005 ALCS, we were fortunate enough to have a MLB umpire speak to our group. At the time he told us that a new signal had been adopted for this play (whereas previously there was NO special signal). The umpire was to point with the right hand, holding the arm straight out to the side, to indicate the strike. Even if you were a guy who used the hammer, point. The reason being that there wouldn't be any confusion between your hammer strike signal and your hammer out signal. While doing this verbalize, "No catch".

The right hand point was to be held out as the play resolved itself (I can't remember if it was until the batter-runner reached first or was put out, or just until he exited the dirt circle around home plate).

Maybe something's changed since then, but I still see some MLB umpires use this signal in games today.

I have see MLB umpires give a safe signal on an uncaught 3rd strike. I am not sure if they say safe as well.

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4 hours ago, JSam21 said:

Because it really is just you holding your strike call.

I hold my strike call and usually just say no catch no catch... and then let the fun begin.

 

You are right - now that I think about it, if I come out right I do hold my right arm out.

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We know that getting in all the "proper" signals can be difficult, or even impossible, on a swinging D3K. 

For fly balls to the outfield we have fair/foul then catch/no catch then....... runners touching bases? Right? Anyway, treat a swinging D3K, or any D3K, the same way. First thing first, we have a strike. I'm a hammer guy, but I always point out to the side with my right arm fully extended on a D3K to eliminate confusion. I put my index finger and thumb together to make a "3" with my fingers, but I'm sure somebody will tell me not to do that. It helps me process that it's a dropped third strike. 

Okay, now we've signaled that we do indeed have strike three. Next thing on the list is the fact that the catcher dropped the ball, but this isn't nearly as imperative as the strike signal. If there's time, give a "safe" mechanic to signal no catch. Oftentimes the catcher will simply come up and tag the BR immediately. If this is the case, I'm not going to signal "safe" immediately followed by an "out" mechanic. Simply give the strike mechanic then come up with a hammer. But if the catcher doesn't tag him immediately, and you have time, go ahead and give a safe mechanic. Then either you'll be responsible for F2 chasing down and tagging the BR or your partner will handle it at first base. 

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