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D2 game, under 500 club. I'm newer to the NCAA and have never had this happen before

Home coach goes to my partner on a safe/out play at first base.  He gets the official warning after going into proper first base positioning with my partner, I was there ready to play rodeo clown when it happened, but it didn't.  It lasted long but not long enough to prolong the game

A couple innings later his 3 hole leans in and I keep him in the box.  He comes down and asks what I had, I obliged, he told me he disagreed, gave me a SH*# eating grin and turned to walk away.  Instead of walking away, he casually says, "can i tell you something man to man right quick."  I thought oh SH*#, here we go, I had it cocked and locked because of the warning, but instead of yelling at me, he proceeds to tell me how frustrated he is that his team sucks, and that the ball isn't going the right way for him.  He was cursing, not at me, and not loud enough for anybody else to hear.  He never went into you this or you that, just that its frustrating because his team isn't good enough to be getting the calls.  This goes on long enough for fans and the opposing teams head coach to start chirping about getting the game going.  The opposing HC even called my partner over to ask why we haven't ejected him.   I finally said [Joe] I'm going back to the dish," and I walked away. 

The first time I had him this year, I ejected an opposing coach and handed out a couple warnings of my own, I know he remembered it. It was the first ejection in our conference of the season. 

Do I eject this guy for prolonging the game, even through he isn't being unsportsmanlike because of the prior warning?

He didn't say SH*# the rest of the weekend, but it felt like a ticking time bomb that maybe could have been avoided if I ejected him earlier.

I know you all weren't there, but have you ever had anything like this and what did you do. 

This one stumped me.

 

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"Do you need to be ejected?"   I think you could say "coach, I understand you're frustrated, but we've got a game to play"

It seems to me that by exercising better game management, you could have kept this apparently one-sided conversation pretty short. You didn't have to oblige the coach at all. Why not just wave him off

Without seeing it for myself, it sounds like you handled it just fine.  Definitely no problem with letting him ask the question - when he starts to complain about his team probably just hear him a bit

It seems to me that by exercising better game management, you could have kept this apparently one-sided conversation pretty short. You didn't have to oblige the coach at all. Why not just wave him off? Seeing as how he came over to you to ask what you had during an at-bat, you've got to take control of the game at that point and let him know what he's doing is unacceptable. If he wanted to vent to you that bad, maybe he could have come to you between innings. 

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I obliged because he had a question about a call that I had.  Just because he got warned earlier doesn't give me the right to wave him off, that would be pretty unapproachable, something our coordinator really stressed this year.  The conversation happened after he ask, i told him, and he politely disagreed. 

"Do you need to be ejected?"  I like that one, it lets him know that its on my mind but gives him kind of a choice, its kind of verbal judoish

 

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Without seeing it for myself, it sounds like you handled it just fine.  Definitely no problem with letting him ask the question - when he starts to complain about his team probably just hear him a bit and start to walk away which it sounds like you did but maybe could have done a little sooner.  

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I obliged because he had a question about a call that I had. 

So? During an at-bat is not an acceptable time to carry on a conversation. His question can wait. And since he took the opportunity to vent instead of limit his conversation to a question, that only compounds the issue.  If he remembers you next month, he may also remember this interaction. Hopefully he won't take the same liberties, believing you'll oblige him the same way again.

Just because he got warned earlier doesn't give me the right to wave him off, that would be pretty unapproachable, something our coordinator really stressed this year. 

Agreed. But you wouldn't be waving him off because you warned him, you'd be waving him off because he shouldn't be approaching you at that time.

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3 hours ago, ElkOil said:

I obliged because he had a question about a call that I had. 

So? During an at-bat is not an acceptable time to carry on a conversation. His question can wait. And since he took the opportunity to vent instead of limit his conversation to a question, that only compounds the issue.  If he remembers you next month, he may also remember this interaction. Hopefully he won't take the same liberties, believing you'll oblige him the same way again.

Just because he got warned earlier doesn't give me the right to wave him off, that would be pretty unapproachable, something our coordinator really stressed this year. 

Agreed. But you wouldn't be waving him off because you warned him, you'd be waving him off because he shouldn't be approaching you at that time.

The OP kept a batter in the box on a hit-by-pitch, and you want him to wait until between innings to discuss it with the coach? If he comes out to ask for an explanation, give him one and move on from there. If he wants to vent for a few seconds, indulge him. It sounds like he may have let it go on for a little too long, but it isn't the end of the world. If this becomes a regular thing with this guy, you may have to cut him off, but once isn't that big of a deal in my opinion. 

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29 minutes ago, zm1283 said:

The OP kept a batter in the box on a hit-by-pitch, and you want him to wait until between innings to discuss it with the coach?  

Yes. AND given that the coach took the opportunity to vent about unrelated things, it wasted time and hindered @clasonater's ability to manage the game. @clasonater asked for advice, so I offered what I could. You obviously aren't offering the same advice. Arguing about the advice I offered doesn't help the OP. Anyone who doesn't like my advice has the choice to not take it.

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Just remember the old verbal judo works both ways. Some coaches do a darn good job of verbal judo with the umpires, and understand how to use the tactics of strictly working (think Billy Packer in Basketball terminology here) the officials/umpire or holding up/delaying the game, i.e., a strategy within itself. Sometimes you would not be looking for something else that might be happening. And the right hand is always watching what the left hand is doing as is obvious by the other coach chirping about the delay.

That can also be a way of working the official, chirping about anything the other guy is doing. Mind games within themselves that umpires have to deal with, even the D1 guys and the D1 on the Super (whatever those actually are) Conferences, which all come under game management and situation handling skills. Remember, even the best are not immune from having something pulled over on them from time to time. In one sense, a lot of sports are games of "momentum" at times if you want to believe in the momentum theory, a theory unto itself. The coach could have just been trying to freeze the opponents pitcher a little bit or play head games about working the inside of the plate. If he was quickly trying to get a reliever into the game the next inning, talking to you about how bad his team is playing could be a way of getting the reliever some more time in the bull pen, because his offense has been having quick innings or giving his pooped out starter more time between innings.

His comments could be thought of as having implied/inferred, very sneakily I might add, that you and your partners and other umpires were being cheaters and questioning your integrity because they are a bad team and that is the reason you do not give him the borderline calls. If they were a good team you would have given his batter the HBP.  So, you make your calls, not on what they honestly really are in your judgment, but on how well a team plays ball, in essence saying you cheat for the better team, but not accusing you of being a homer. Billy Martin/Earl Weaver were always pining for the next call.

And, have you ever been on a golf course and hit a really long shot into the rough. You went where you honestly saw the ball landed to you. You were looking 25 yards ahead of where your partner found the ball. How about the other way around. You were looking 25 yards short of where your  partner found the ball. It's the same theory with time. Some things seem like only 30 seconds, but you spent 3 minutes discussing. Some things seem like 3 minutes and it was only 30 seconds. In the heat/or controversy of the moment, time is not your friend each and every time.

And, if you had of deferred any conversation to between innings, make sure the coach does not distract you from his pitchers warm up count, to try and get extra's in/8 pitches or whatever, and hold the inning up from starting.

Good luck.

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The first thing one of my older veteran friends told me was that he may have had somebody in the cages somewhere warming up, because I specifically remember nobody in the bullpen. 

I do believe he was sneakily trying to get a hand up without crossing the line.  Funny thing is, my partner kept the same kid in the box the next game.  :lol:

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1 hour ago, clasonater said:

The first thing one of my older veteran friends told me was that he may have had somebody in the cages somewhere warming up, because I specifically remember nobody in the bullpen. 

I do believe he was sneakily trying to get a hand up without crossing the line.  Funny thing is, my partner kept the same kid in the box the next game.  :lol:

Yep. He was trying to plant that seed.

He was also trying to show his team he had their backs by staying as long as he could get away with. They have no idea many times what the coach is saying but perception is reality or seeing is believing.

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My understanding of the 'warning', is that it is for each 'occasion'. He was warned by your partner for something totally different - that shouldn't apply to the HBP conversation. The only time the warning is 'remembered' is the chirping dugout or balls/strikes.

I issued a warning today, and I think it shut down the conversation, because he knew what was next. I used it for that conversation only, it isn't like HS when issuing warnings.

I have no problem with a little venting, but don't let it delay the game. Tell them you understand and 'we need to keep the game moving" - they will move on.

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21 hours ago, ElkOil said:

Yes. AND given that the coach took the opportunity to vent about unrelated things, it wasted time and hindered @clasonater's ability to manage the game. @clasonater asked for advice, so I offered what I could. You obviously aren't offering the same advice. Arguing about the advice I offered doesn't help the OP. Anyone who doesn't like my advice has the choice to not take it.

If a coach wants to talk about a play, he can come talk about it when it happens. Unless there are extenuating circumstances, I'm done talking about it once we start the game again. 

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10 hours ago, clasonater said:

I do believe he was sneakily trying to get a hand up without crossing the line. 

That states my original point better than I did. The coach was trying to be the big dog, and since you're going to have a game with him again, I hope he's not going to try to build on what he may have "accomplished."

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When a coach comes out on me, I will walk towards him for two reasons: 1. I want to have this convo away from any players; 2. when "we're done" talking about this, I can walk away back to where I need to be. If he starts to follow, he is "advised" not to continue and risks a restriction/EJ if he does.

It might seem impolite to walk away in the middle of the rant about his team, but I'd look for him to take an inhale and say, "ok, back to baseball", and walk away.

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I was always taught to stay in my position and let the coach come to me. The reason being if hes mad and storming towards you and you start towards him it looks aggressive. I also like to run back to my position when I know hes coming just so he has to come all the way out to me. Either giving me time to explain what I had or give him time to cool off just a bit before getting there. 

 

Not sure if thats right or wrong. Just how ive always done it. 

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I worked with a guy this summer who had been to pro school. He said to take a few steps, that way you can go back to your position at the end and you're not stuck there with no place to go.

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20 minutes ago, csabo17 said:

I was always taught to stay in my position and let the coach come to me. The reason being if hes mad and storming towards you and you start towards him it looks aggressive. I also like to run back to my position when I know hes coming just so he has to come all the way out to me. Either giving me time to explain what I had or give him time to cool off just a bit before getting there. 

 

Not sure if thats right or wrong. Just how ive always done it. 

 

4 minutes ago, udbrky said:

I worked with a guy this summer who had been to pro school. He said to take a few steps, that way you can go back to your position at the end and you're not stuck there with no place to go.

In my left ball bag, I carry a trench shovel. If a coach starts to come out, I rely on my years of military training to quickly dig a fox hole, stealthily crawl in and hope he didn't see anything. I'll wait in there for as long as I have to until the coach -- feeling the awkward silence -- is compelled to slink back to his dugout in the shame of having lost an argument he had all by himself. I only emerge once the catcher -- with whom I previously worked out an intricate set of signals -- informs me the coast is clear.

Since adopting this approach two years ago, it's worked pretty well. So far, I haven't been scratched from any games, and I've only damaged two sprinkler heads and caused a small leak in a gas main.

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2 minutes ago, ElkOil said:

 

In my left ball bag, I carry a trench shovel. If a coach starts to come out, I rely on my years of military training to quickly dig a fox hole, stealthily crawl in and hope he didn't see anything. I'll wait in there for as long as I have to until the coach -- feeling the awkward silence -- is compelled to slink back to his dugout in the shame of having lost an argument he had all by himself. I only emerge once the catcher -- with whom I previously worked out an intricate set of signals -- informs me the coast is clear.

Since adopting this approach two years ago, it's worked pretty well. So far, I haven't been scratched from any games, and I've only damaged two sprinkler heads and caused a small leak in a gas main.

I found footage of one of your coach encounters.
 

 

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