Team Wendy retrofit question

[BT_Blue]

I've been AWOL from the page for so long that I'm not even sure how to search for the answer.

Been wondering if anyone knows if Team Wendy might still be doing the retrofit on Wilson protectors? I thought they had stopped doing them a while back. But had heard recely they had started again.

Hoping someone wasn't messing with me!

[conbo61]

They had stopped as of last March.  I checked their website a few weeks ago and there is no mention of chest protector retrofits. 

[JimKirk]

Team Wendy is no longer doing them and from hearing from them about it, they do not plan to pick this back up anytime soon.

[MadMax]

Team Wendy has received such an upswell of demand (in a good way) from the Military and Law Enforcement communities to produce helmets that they just could not allocate the resources and staff to do retrofits any longer. Of slight concern is they may reach a point wherein they are no longer able to produce mask pads. While they never sold mask pads through their site, instead leaving Ump-Attire and the H'place as the only two vendors, they recently dropped even mention of the mask pads from their latest site revision.

It's going to have to be another entity stepping up / in to fill this very necessary void. MLBU even advise that CP pads should be changed every 2-3 years; the dichotomy is that Wilson – the exclusive supplier of Major League Baseball Umpires – doesn't even re-pad their own units!

Think about that. Let that soak in.

Are you starting to consider the implications of this ignorance? And to think, this has been going on for over 10 years. Something's gotta change.

[BT_Blue]

Definitely something I had considered in the past. My TW pads for my mask are due for replacement this year or next.

I have always wondered why Wilson doesn't sell replacement or referbish their padding like Douglas does? I'm sure this is a @JimKirk or the fine people at UA kind of question. It is one of the main reasons I might switch to a Douglas on my next CP. Or a Force3 as soon as we can actually see a cut away of the CP to see the "blast shield."

[JimKirk]

Wait! Who recommended that you replace your CP padding every 2-3 years?

I have never heard that.

On masks, you can easily change the pads and most pads fits most brand masks. The cost is reasonable. The brain is much more vulnerable than organs in the chest so replacement is much more important mask pads than CP pads.

Chest protectors meet none of these tick marks. 

If you are wearing a hard shell CP (I'm including Force3 v2), will the CP be less protective over time? Sure. But not to the extent you need to change out your padding every 2-3 years or buy a CP every 2-3 years - unless you really wanted something different.

As I understand it, umpires retrofitted Wilson CPs with Team Wendy to create a Wilson that was low profile and/or using memory foam for all the reasons you would such as comfort - not necessarily to replace unsafe padding (although I'm sure some retrofits were to extend the life of older Wlson or other CP models).

Those of you who did retrofit yours with Team Wendy, were you really planning on doing it again in 2-3 years?

[JimKirk]

On October 3, 2016 at 2:45 AM, BT_Blue said:

Definitely something I had considered in the past. My TW pads for my mask are due for replacement this year or next.

I have always wondered why Wilson doesn't sell replacement or referbish their padding like Douglas does? I'm sure this is a @JimKirk or the fine people at UA kind of question. It is one of the main reasons I might switch to a Douglas on my next CP. Or a Force3 as soon as we can actually see a cut away of the CP to see the "blast shield."

Thanks for the mention. If you are conflicted on the Douglas and another CP then choose the Douglas for the retrofit potential later.

Should nothing spark your eye between now and the time you need it refurbished 6, 8 or 10 years down the road, then that will work in your favor. But in most cases, umpires will want to try something else before then.

This fits into Douglas processes refurbishing football shoulder pads. The math probably works for them where it doesn't work for others including Team Wendy as MadMax shared.

On the blast shield, take a thicker plastic shell of a Wilson or Champion CP and slice it at its thickness...and perhaps at half of it - give or take some centimeters - and that is what the blast shield would look like.

Hope that helps!

[MadMax]

30 minutes ago, JimKirk said:

Wait! Who recommended that you replace your CP padding every 2-3 years?

I have never heard that.

...

As I understand it, umpires retrofitted Wilson CPs with Team Wendy to create a Wilson that was low profile and/or using memory foam for all the reasons you would such as comfort - not necessarily to replace unsafe padding (although I'm sure some retrofits were to extend the life of older Wlson or other CP models).

@JimKirk, I said that "MLBU even advise that CP pads should be changed every 2-3 years; the dichotomy is that Wilson – the exclusive supplier of Major League Baseball Umpires – doesn't even re-pad their own units!" I myself don't advise it or subscribe to it; I'm only regurgitating what was said by A Particular MLBU Staff Person*. Keep in mind, this is Major League Baseball advising this, wherein this is a profession, and most of the gear is comp'd, supplied, or outfitted with a steep discount. Of course it's an easy process to get yet another Wilson Platinum, rigged exactly the same as your existing one, every other baseball season. You wonder where the previous unit goes? Why wonder at all! You're a professional baseball umpire, with Wilson as the exclusive supplier! They'll supply you forever!

Are you sensing the sarcasm? I can heap on more if needed.

Realistically, I don't see CP padding itself needing to be changed out that frequently, if at all. Most of the new foams and absorbing materials being used have effective lifespans in the years category, and are much easier to maintain and clean. Wilson CP's, though, because they haven't adopted new materials, and continue to use sofa cushion foam, are more challenging to maintain. So too, Wilson's padding has to be thicker – more voluminous – so as to provide equitable dampening properties to the new modern foams. So those getting their Douglas, Riddell and Wilson CP's padding retrofitted with TW Zorbium are getting several benefits, the least of which is changing out foam that is bulkier and less ventilated than today's foams, and has likely not taken well to being exposed to salts and alkalis for several years.

Would my opinion change of Wilson if they were to roll out a WestVest with latest edition foam in it? Yes, absolutely. Are they likely to do so sometime soon? Odds are stacked against them not.

* - name withheld. To give you an idea, this same individual proclaimed and exhibited that an All-Star FM4000 was titanium. Shows how much he knows.

[JimKirk]

Thanks for clarifying. Definitely if you could get free geae every few years, you would do it.

[BT_Blue]

@JimKirk, not completely sure what you are saying? Are you saying the Blast Shield on the F3v2 is a thicker piece of plastic than the plastic on West Vest Gold?

[kylejt]

On 10/4/2016 at 5:16 PM, JimKirk said:

Those of you who did retrofit yours with Team Wendy, were you really planning on doing it again in 2-3 years?

Nope, as mine are holding up quit nicely. Hard to beat a Gold or RIddell with TW retro and a DeltaFlex.

I'm sure something will come along, someday, and the All Star is close, but until then.............

 

[Thunderheads]

On 10/5/2016 at 1:04 AM, BT_Blue said:

@JimKirk, not completely sure what you are saying? Are you saying the Blast Shield on the F3v2 is a thicker piece of plastic than the plastic on West Vest Gold?

Nope.... read it again ....  1/2 the thickness

[BT_Blue]

On 10/6/2016 at 9:53 PM, kylejt said:

Nope, as mine are holding up quit nicely. Hard to beat a Gold or RIddell with TW retro and a DeltaFlex.

I'm sure something will come along, someday, and the All Star is close, but until then.............

 

That really doesn't sound like much! I'm sure the kevlar helps. But man does it make me wary.

Now to get around to posting if anyone might be interested in trading a WV Gold for a Douglas. And no, Jeff, I don't want just your padding.

[MadMax]

20 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

That really does sound like much! I'm sure the kevlar helps. But man does it make me weary.

Did you mean "doesn't"? And, did you mean "wary"? Don't be. The UnEqual Mk.2 addressed each of the shortfalls of the Mk.1, with the top of the list being the rigid blast plates.

Kevlar is renowned for its force absorption / dissipation properties. Reliable enough to catch bullets. In a baseball application, though, a baseball carries much greater mass than a bullet, and the concern was that mass would overwhelm the Kevlar, especially at the sternum and ribs. While Kevlar vests will catch the bullet and prevent penetration, the wearer will still exhibit tissue trauma (bruising) or incur a broken rib. If your sternum receives enough concussive force, your heart may stop. To address this, the UnEqual Mk.2 embeds rigid blast plates in this manner:
Neoprene | Plastic (likely thin ABS) | Kevlar | Membrane | Foam filler | Wicking Mesh

Kevlar's one Achilles heel is UV exposure – it cannot be exposed to UV light. It also exists as a weave, and teams splendidly with a range of polymers, ceramics and plastics that give it rigidity. This is exactly what Force3 did, and thus, when impacted by a ball, nearly all that force is transferred to the blast plate first, then carried by the Kevlar en totále, working as a system. The blast plates are located throughout the torso of the UnEqual. They don't have to be thick because they are backed by Kevlar; in fact, they are on the thinner side so as to still allow the CP to behave in the conforming, low-profile, sleek silhouette that many modern umpires favor. They only have to give the Kevlar something to be teamed to.

I've held and examined an UnEqual Mk.2 in my hands. I have no doubts about it, and honestly believe that it is the top of the line and the benchmark by which to measure all other CP's. I own and use a Schutt XV for four very straightforward reasons: cost, weight, ventilation, and protective-value-against-cost. My XV was less than $80, is a feather compared to other hardshell CP's in its market, is tremendously well ventilated and airy (and that has to do with the shell, and the next factor... ), and last but not least uses TPU-EVA foam bricks, which are themselves airy and modern technology foam instead of sofa cushion foam (ahem * cough * cough * Wilson * cough * cough). If I had the capital to do it, I would purchase and use an UnEqual in a heartbeat, and with my relocation to Arizona, I'm now staring down much greater velocities in much more intense arenas, and I do not feel wary at all.

There's nothing – nothing – magical about the gold "W" in today's gear market.

[BT_Blue]

I am attending the Wendelstedt NW clinic in February. Hopefully SOMEONE will have a v2 that I can putz with. Also hoping someone has a v2 mask I can try out.

Really wish TW would still do their retrofit. Or someone else would start (ahem... *cough * cough* Max). 

[Andre Morgan]

On October 6, 2016 at 11:53 PM, kylejt said:

Nope, as mine are holding up quit nicely. Hard to beat a Gold or RIddell with TW retro and a DeltaFlex.

I'm sure something will come along, someday, and the All Star is close, but until then.............

 

I 100% agree. I have this exact same setup and have used it through NCAA DI and never felt a thing....and yes I got it TW Retro fitted for the low profile...I was ok with the protectio in my original WVG 

[kylejt]

Kevlar is great for preventing penetration, because of how it's woven, and it's strength.

 

When baseballs are threatening to penetrate my plastic plates, I think it's time to retire. Until then, large plates (not those tiny Davishield ones) really do the job of disbursing energy quite well from incoming baseballs. Ever get hit while wearing a System 7? No Jim Evans yelp, trust me.

 

I think the next step on the chest protector evolution is moldable, and individually sized plates and padding. Heat them up, and conform them to your body. No more, "one size fits most", or "two sizes are good enough". Just a thought. (I thought of this while sitting in a sauna, with a heated up Platinum strapped hard against my chest, years ago.)

[BT_Blue]

Would only make sense. That is basically what the Evo Shield guards players wear.

[kylejt]

On the "Umpire" Facebook page, someone has two TW retrofiteed Platinums, for $200 each.

[conbo61]

I am surprised someone has not contracted with TW yet to purchase their padding material and perform the retrofits.

Is this something U-A would consider Mr. Kirk? @JimKirk

[mbkcoach]

TW said they don't make the padding for it anymore since they are not retrofitting anymore. 

[BT_Blue]

What he is suggesting is contracting with TW by acquiring the material used in the retrofits and doing the retrofit themselves. Thus TW would no longer have to do them.

Much the same way that UA has a deal to sell Razzer's lineup folders.

[JimKirk]

On October 21, 2016 at 0:34 PM, conbo61 said:

I am surprised someone has not contracted with TW yet to purchase their padding material and perform the retrofits.

Is this something U-A would consider Mr. Kirk? @JimKirk

Thanks for thinking of us.

My hunch is this is more of a minimum quantity issue than a retrofit/time issue from Team Wendy.

In other words, in order for this to work, Team Wendy would have to manufacture at least several hundred to make it work. I don't have the numbers on number of retrofits they did - probably enough early on - but not enough to sustain this year in year out. Again, my hunch.

If the numbers did work, it's not on our radar anytime soon to service equipment. We are growing so much, we are working hard just to keep our bread-and-butter standards of stock availability, same day business shipping, service, etc.

[BT_Blue]

Already got Scott Kennedy running ragged with the YouTube and Facebook stuff. I could just imagine if you guys also started doing this.

[JimKirk]

7 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

Already got Scott Kennedy running ragged with the YouTube and Facebook stuff. I could just imagine if you guys also started doing this.

No doubt. We're having fun, he LOVES it and he's been a BIG help connecting and communicating with you guys as well as freeing me up to do more of what I need to be doing. 

Thanks for tuning in! More to come.