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Volunteer LL umpires

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As I am watching the Tennessee California game right now Karl Ravich makes it a point to say that there is much criticsism of the volunteer umpires that are given the "privilege" of volunteering their time in Williamsport. I know LL won't take the steps to pay for the umpires, but has there been any discussion to find a corporation that would sponsor to pay for our brothers in blue?

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You're swimming across the English channel.  Cold.  Exhaustion.  Sharks.  The whole bit.  You get within 100 yards of the shore.  The TV crews show up.  I drive up in my boat and offer you a ride, a sandwich, and a beer.

Do you

A) Get in the boat on live television

B) Tough it out for the last 100 yards, consistent with your mission

 

 

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1 hour ago, GPblue said:

As I am watching the Tennessee California game right now Karl Ravich makes it a point to say that there is much criticsism of the volunteer umpires that are given the "privilege" of volunteering their time in Williamsport. I know LL won't take the steps to pay for the umpires, but has there been any discussion to find a corporation that would sponsor to pay for our brothers in blue?

They don't pay the coaches either.

The umpires get travel assistance and new gear.

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It probably doesn't cover all the expenses of getting there but they are given $400 according to this article. They mentioned it on one of the telecasts. I think it was one of the other World Series not in Williamsport. 

 

http://www.littleleague.org/media/llnewsarchive/2016/January-April/2016-llws-umpires.htm

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They don't pay the coaches either.

The umpires get travel assistance and new gear.

I volunteer for LL, but I've always found this argument idiotic.

Coaches coach. Umpires work.

I've coached my daughter's traveling team 2 of the last 3 years and I couldn't imagine getting paid to do it.

But I wouldn't umpire a travel tournament in my backyard for free.

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LL Rule Book under General Information pg.10
"There is no sound reason for paying umpires, or any other person whose services should be provided on a volunteer basis".

This statement, IMHO, is uncalled for, ignorant, and inappropriate. It infers taking for granted peoples' willingness to help and many times those are the same people that give too much.

My son asked me last year "why should I spend my time and money for the "privilege" of giving it to someone else for free!?? . . . especially when it's a million dollar company and according to reports, the CEO for LL makes an annual salary of approx. $419,867?

Some people have told me that all "volunteers" should get paid. Ok. . . I wonder how much the other "volunteers" will have to spend of their money on equipment and uniforms to do their job(s) at the concession stand, coach, manage, ground maintenance, travel, etc. ?????

PS. . . I guess I won't be eligible to go to LL Regionals or LLWS . . . I now get paid to do LL :-)

Just my .02 guys.
 

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8 hours ago, RichMSN said:

I volunteer for LL, but I've always found this argument idiotic.

Coaches coach. Umpires work.

I've coached my daughter's traveling team 2 of the last 3 years and I couldn't imagine getting paid to do it.

But I wouldn't umpire a travel tournament in my backyard for free.

Our opinions differ.

If coaching isn't work why do so many get paid (school, college, pro, training center)?

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12 hours ago, basejester said:

You're swimming across the English channel.  Cold.  Exhaustion.  Sharks.  The whole bit.  You get within 100 yards of the shore.  The TV crews show up.  I drive up in my boat and offer you a ride, a sandwich, and a beer.

Do you

A) Get in the boat on live television

B) Tough it out for the last 100 yards, consistent with your mission

 

 

What kind of beer?

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2 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Our opinions differ.

If coaching isn't work why do so many get paid (school, college, pro, training center)?

I know a local community in my area that pays their Palomino (16-18 PONY) coach to run their team.  I don't know the bi-laws of LL, but if their local organizations feel they want to get a coach to take them to Williamsport, there is always a way to pay them.

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There's a very sound reason to pay umpires...supply and demand. And I'm not providing the supply without pay.

This isn't an anti-LL post per se. If I was part of a community that truly did try to live up to the ideal of a community coming together to create an outlet for kids, especially if I had kids in or recently in the program, I may very well volunteer. But just as an unaffiliated supplier? Uh...no.

In any case, LL is virtually non-existent in the central OH area, so it's a moot point.

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Watching the LLWS Tenn / Iowa game right now and I believe the HPU #65 is the State of Maryland's UIC, Joe Smith and he's adamant against paying LL umps! :-(

Yup, that's him.

Edited by SJA

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Watching the LLWS Tenn / Iowa game right now and I believe the HPU #65 is the State of Maryland's UIC, Joe Smith and he's adamant against paying LL umps! :-(

Good. He walks the walk, then.

Plenty of ball out there to work that pays.

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There is very little LL in northern MO.  Maybe in the rural areas but anywhere that kids can play tournament ball, they do and that means USSSA.  Bigger fields, leading off, better competition.  I'm a fan of LL as well but the old adage has to apply (at least before you get to regionals) in that you get what you pay for.  I think the talent for LL will continue to dilute as long as other associations continue to grow.

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8 hours ago, SJA said:

LL Rule Book under General Information pg.10
"There is no sound reason for paying umpires, or any other person whose services should be provided on a volunteer basis".

This statement, IMHO, is uncalled for, ignorant, and inappropriate. It infers taking for granted peoples' willingness to help and many times those are the same people that give too much.

My son asked me last year "why should I spend my time and money for the "privilege" of giving it to someone else for free!?? . . . especially when it's a million dollar company and according to reports, the CEO for LL makes an annual salary of approx. $419,867?

Some people have told me that all "volunteers" should get paid. Ok. . . I wonder how much the other "volunteers" will have to spend of their money on equipment and uniforms to do their job(s) at the concession stand, coach, manage, ground maintenance, travel, etc. ?????

PS. . . I guess I won't be eligible to go to LL Regionals or LLWS . . . I now get paid to do LL :-)

Just my .02 guys.
 

While I understand not paying LL umpires, I do think the attitude presented by LL, Inc. is wrong. There are a couple leagues that have to pay umpires as the volunteers will no longer tolerate the attitude of some of the coaches/leadership. Other leagues' coaches are becoming frustrated by the lack of quality volunteer umpires. If the umpires don't want compensation, they can do what others have done before them and refuse to take the money, or donate it back to the local leagues. 

Personally, I think it would be advantageous for the teams to put some money in to tip the ump. Hell, I think having the team parents pass a cup during the game would be great. It's not like umpire gear is cheap. Nor the gas to get to games. I don't think LL needs to shell out $65 a game, but I think you'd get more guys signing up if there were even a little compensation. 

Somebody here had mentioned that parents will drop a couple hundred bucks on a bat, but can't be bothered to compensate the umpires. That is a problem. Also, LL, Inc. is going to have an image problem as they appear to be whoring themselves out for any kind of sponsorship dollars. When I get an email from LL, Inc. that's all about Bomb pops, it's all about money. 

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I think the problem is that it is looked at as pay. I think of it as an honourarium (I know Canadian spelling) for the volunteer work we do. 

Coaches do not wash their team's uniforms. Coaches do not buy the team's equipment. Coaches do not have to pay for hemming of pants or getting patches or embroidery sewn on shirts and hats. Coaches are not being insulted for their decisions in the game.

Before I stepped on the field this year, I spend over $1200 Canadian (about $925 US) on getting better as an umpire and making sure I have the necessary apparel and equipment to present a professional image on the field. The honourarium I receive in game fees recognizes the investment and contribution I give to the community to make sure the sport people love is played safely and fairly.

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39 minutes ago, BCBrad said:

I think the problem is that it is looked at as pay. I think of it as an honourarium (I know Canadian spelling) for the volunteer work we do. 

Coaches do not wash their team's uniforms. Coaches do not buy the team's equipment. Coaches do not have to pay for hemming of pants or getting patches or embroidery sewn on shirts and hats. Coaches are not being insulted for their decisions in the game.

Before I stepped on the field this year, I spend over $1200 Canadian (about $925 US) on getting better as an umpire and making sure I have the necessary apparel and equipment to present a professional image on the field. The honourarium I receive in game fees recognizes the investment and contribution I give to the community to make sure the sport people love is played safely and fairly.

But as was posted before....LL says there is no "Sound reason to pay umpires"  We all want to better ourselves as umpires and volunteer our time out of the goodness of our hearts?  I was reading on their website and came across this line "Many districts and leagues have found successful ways to operate volunteer umpiring programs, helping to defray the costs that might normally be passed on to the parents."

This line right there just proves to me that Little League understands the quality of umpires they get is what they pay for it.  Supply and Demand at it's finest.

I guess we better talk to our local school districts who use taxpayers money to pay for their umpires.

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2 hours ago, GPblue said:

 "Many districts and leagues have found successful ways to operate volunteer umpiring programs, helping to defray the costs that might normally be passed on to the parents."

This line right there just proves to me that Little League understands the quality of umpires they get is what they pay for it.  

Nope.  That line right there says LL believes it possible to get quality umpires without paying for them.

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21 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Nope.  That line right there says LL believes it possible to get quality umpires without paying for them.

And if you can get them, great. If it's truly a community coming together collectively for the kids, then I'm fine with it. But don't stick that nose in the air and say there's NEVER a good reason to pay umpires, because there most certainly is...when supply and demand dictates it.

If a field needs some landscaping done, does a team/group/district pay for it? If a company wants to donate those services, outstanding. But if not, I bet they pay their supplier for the services they provided. This is no different.

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I wasn't going to mention it, but since this thread has been discussed in a civil and informational manner, I'll go ahead and add this:

I attended the STATE Clinic / meeting this year and during the "Question and Answer" phase, a UIC member brought up the subject of paying umpires. He was IMMEDIATLEY told to drop the subject and there would be no discussion about it at this meeting. The room went silent  . . . next question ? . . .

:-(

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17 hours ago, SJA said:

I wasn't going to mention it, but since this thread has been discussed in a civil and informational manner, I'll go ahead and add this:

I attended the STATE Clinic / meeting this year and during the "Question and Answer" phase, a UIC member brought up the subject of paying umpires. He was IMMEDIATLEY told to drop the subject and there would be no discussion about it at this meeting. The room went silent  . . . next question ? . . .

:-(

Has anyone ever found what the TV contract is to LL from ESPN to broadcast their "volunteer" tournament.  I highly doubt ESPN donates their personal, equipment, satellite feed, etc. to have Karl Ravich and Kruck criticize the umpires.

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When I went to watch a friend work the LLWS, I struck up a conversation with someone who was parking cars a long way away.

Told me he was there as part of court-ordered community service.

It also seemed to me that the concession workers were part of a company that, I'm guessing, pays its workers.

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24 minutes ago, JaxRolo said:

LL needs to play real baseball

What does that even mean?

Personally, I am thrilled that there is no leading and, subsequently, 45 pickoff throws to first base.

The only thing I'd change is I'd move the fences back another 25 feet.

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4 hours ago, GPblue said:

Has anyone ever found what the TV contract is to LL from ESPN to broadcast their "volunteer" tournament.  I highly doubt ESPN donates their personal, equipment, satellite feed, etc. to have Karl Ravich and Kruck criticize the umpires.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2013/08/26/Media/LLWS.aspx

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