Indicators

[mstaylor]

I don't want to start an argument about whether to use an indicator on the bases or not. There are some that refuse to use them or refuse others to use them. There are others that are in groups that insist on the BU use one. My group doesn't care. I teach guys how to use them but it is up to them if they carry one or not.

One of the big complaints about guys using a counter is looking at them too much or at a bad time. I agree that if you carry a counter, whether on the bases or on the plate, you can't be a watcher. Too many things could blow up while you are distracted by trying to see the count. It also just looks bad. You should be able to spin the wheels without looking at it, so then all you need is to able to verify the information on it without looking.

I learned this years ago on another board and I'm sure many here know the trick but it's good to pass on every so often. Take a file and notch the wheels so each position is marked differently. The obvious would be one notch for a strike/ball etc. Some guys use different shapes for each spot instead of number of marks. Whatever method you use, from then on all you have to is feel the wheels and you automaticly know the count and number of outs.

[widac]

I don't want to start an argument about whether to use an indicator on the bases or not.

Then why bring it up?:givebeer:

[MCLEOD36]

Widac,

Is that a rented mule you are beating? I tend to bring an indicator to the bases and use it if my partner wants backup. It is just a habit. Our assoc. says it is ok, the evaluators typically ding you, so either way you have to watch it. I will have it for my partners help, not though a coaches whining.

[LMSANS]

Then why bring it up?

Not that Mike can't defend himself, but I think he was trying to avoid the whole indicator on the bases discussion while providing some advice to those that do carry one on the bases.

:givebeer:

[mstaylor]

It actually works well when on the plate. If you don't ever have to look at your counter you can pay attention to what's going on in front of you, plus you get the added bonus of looking more professional.

[PeteBooth]

I don't want to start an argument about whether to use an indicator on the bases or not. There are some that refuse to use them or refuse others to use them. There are others that are in groups that insist on the BU use one. My group doesn't care. I teach guys how to use them but it is up to them if they carry one or not.

Michael most of us do not work where there are score-Boards. For those that do consider yourself lucky.

IMO, the main use is when we have a stoppage DURING an at bat.

When play resumes, it's much easier to look at the indicator to get the STARTING count. Also, at least for me it' simply a matter of habit. Also, what's getting lost in all this is.

I merely GLANCE at the indicator. I understand what you mean about STARING at it etc. but for me a simple glance is no BIG deal.

This subject is "to each his or hers own" OR if that's what your association wants you to do then do it.

Pete Booth

[Umpire in Chief]

Funny story, my first year of umpiring I stared at my indicator (we do not use them on the bases). Our now commissioner was then an evaluator who would randomly show up at fields and evaluate guys unannounced. After the game he comes up to me and asks for my indicator and I hand it to him. He said, "Funny, the way you stared at this thing I thought you would have had an indicator with naked ladies on it, but it's just a regular indicator."

I believe it is a confidence thing. Once an umpire builds up his confidence he is less dependent on it.

Now, I hardly look at my indicator, but when a coach asks for the count I'll look at it to confirm before I open my mouth. I'll also look at it if/after a bizarre play where I forget the count.

[MCLEOD36]

Warren,

I agree, when at a NCAA camp, one of the instructors (MLB Guy) asked me if my AllStar metal indicator had a gps too. It just now feels good in my hand, I rarely look at it...so that is what? a crutch LOL....

[Bailey8]

I believe it is a confidence thing. Once an umpire builds up his confidence he is less dependent on it.

IMO as a new umpire, the threads about the indicators is very intimidating that if you use an indicator that you are not worthy. I know that is not all the intentions.

I agree with Warren, I will use one for a while until I do get my confidence up. There are so many others things to pay attention to during the game that as a newbie this is one crutch I will use for a while.

When an evaulator looks if you use an indicator, how much does it affect an evaluation?

[Umpire in Chief]

IMO as a new umpire, the threads about the indicators is very intimidating that if you use an indicator that you are not worthy. I know that is not all the intentions.

I agree with Warren, I will use one for a while until I do get my confidence up. There are so many others things to pay attention to during the game that as a newbie this is one crutch I will use for a while.

When an evaulator looks if you use an indicator, how much does it affect an evaluation?

It's fine to have it and use it at the plate and okay to use on the bases as your association requires. But its staring at it which will get you a ding on your eval. If you need to look give it a quick glance.

Don't be intimidated about using one. I will always use one at the plate.

[mstaylor]

OK, maybe I need to make myself clearer. I don't care if you use one on the bases or not, which is why I said I didn't want to start that whole discussion. Most guys use them on the plate, but again if you don't that's fine too. My point of post was a method to be able to use a counter without having to EVER look at it. By notching it using the method I explained you never have to look at it again. If a coach asks, you can just answer without looking so you look more confident.

[Majordave]

I took a file and made notches in my indicator last year after reading about it here or on some other forum. You won't believe how much it helps.

I use one notch on 1, 2 on 2 and so on. Takes about 5-10 minutes.

Try it, you'll like it.

[LMSANS]

:banghead:

As a cadet 5 years ago, I had the bases in a freshman scrimmage. Runner on 2nd, I'm in C. F2 makes a snap throw to 2B. I missed it because I was looking at my indicator. Coincidently, R2 was my wife's godson. By the time I turned around:WTF, he was on the base and being tagged...safe. DC was not happy. The kids father later told me he was pretty sure he was out.

This was before I was online reading how bad it is to have an indicator on the bases. Since that time, I still use an indicator on the bases for most games. However, I am no longer staring at it!

Last year, after reading about it, I put notches on the wheels for the zero position, one less reason to look at it.

[Bailey8]

I notched my new indicator today. Watching a game on TV getting use to the feel of the marks with the count. Thanks, that is a great idea!

[mazzamouth]

I have already had a few college games and in my pregame, I told my partner, I will not bring a Indicator out on the bases... that was his job.. I try really hard to keep track of the count.

[mfd110]

We personally do not take a indicator to the field in my association. When I went to umpiring school in Florida it was a major no no to have the indicator on the field... Just my two cents.

[mstaylor]

We personally do not take a indicator to the field in my association. When I went to umpiring school in Florida it was a major no no to have the indicator on the field... Just my two cents.

This is where this belief comes from. In the pro ranks they never carry on the bases, insust on it for the PU. The difference is they have excellent scoreboards with professional operators. Many of us work fields that in many cases don't even have a scoreboard, consenquently I don't care if they carry or not. I had this conversation with my partner yesterday, who doesn't use one on the bases, he recommends that new guys use them and then decide later to use it or not. I'm good with that theory. Some guys get really psychotic about it, me not so much.

[Astrosdawg07]

This is where this belief comes from. In the pro ranks they never carry on the bases, insust on it for the PU. The difference is they have excellent scoreboards with professional operators. Many of us work fields that in many cases don't even have a scoreboard, consenquently I don't care if they carry or not. I had this conversation with my partner yesterday, who doesn't use one on the bases, he recommends that new guys use them and then decide later to use it or not. I'm good with that theory. Some guys get really psychotic about it, me not so much.

I thought in most 4 man crews the 1B normally keeps one. I know some guys run a 3 man with the 1b having one also.

[mstaylor]

This is true but most talk about two man only. Two man, as used in Rookie, Short A and Long A, carry on the plate, no carry on the bases. In three and four man there is usually an information conduit. He is the one that carries the extra indicator and he is the one that gets the signals from PU and conveys it to the other crew members.

[ump81]

My two cents, it is a clear sign of an amateur to have an indicator on the bases, it is not your job to manage the balls and strikes. I guarantee you will miss a balk at some point or a pickoff because your face was stuck where it didnt belong in the first place. At pro school it is a huge NO-NO and a sign of discrespect to your plate partner, at any high level game have you ever seen an umpire on the bases with an indicator? It is a poor mechanic I think some of us adopted from softball, where there are no leads or pick offs or balks. No one I have ever worked with in 14 years has used an indicator in my plate game, if he brings one out it is in his pocket immediatly after a good dose of my feelings on the matter. Ever seen am MLB ump with an indicator on the bases? you may see them looking down but its at a stop watch for commercial time between innings, or at a beeper with a red light that TV uses to indicate they are ready to go. I tell anyone using one "do you want to improve your base umpiring and be the best you can be, with a new level of concentration" most guys say yes, I then tell them "stick that indicator where the sun dont shine and work the bases" Goes over pretty well, at least I make my point. At my home association no issues at all due to our training and pro influence, but when I travel to do tournaments in Fla. or up in Coooperstown I see it as a crutch and a sign you dont trust the plate man. If you use one try a game without it and concentrate on the pitcher, runners or think of your next possible play and your mechanics movements, I guarantee you will vastly improve your base game. Not having to move that thing and stick your face in it will free you up to be a better base man and partner. I'm a bit firm on this matter as you can tell but I speak from experience and training, get the indicator off the baeses!

[LMSANS]

I have never seen a MLB umpire with an indicator. Probably has nothing to do with the fact that there are at least 3 places where he can see the count on the field...and a professional maintaining it.

I have also never seen a MLB umpire get dressed in the parking lot of the ball park. So I guess I should only work at facilities that provide me with a dressing room.

Stop with the MLB comparison for this topic, it doesn't fit.

And BTW, I don't use an indicator on the bases.

[mstaylor]

My two cents, it is a clear sign of an amateur to have an indicator on the bases, it is not your job to manage the balls and strikes. I guarantee you will miss a balk at some point or a pickoff because your face was stuck where it didnt belong in the first place. At pro school it is a huge NO-NO and a sign of discrespect to your plate partner, at any high level game have you ever seen an umpire on the bases with an indicator? It is a poor mechanic I think some of us adopted from softball, where there are no leads or pick offs or balks. No one I have ever worked with in 14 years has used an indicator in my plate game, if he brings one out it is in his pocket immediatly after a good dose of my feelings on the matter. Ever seen am MLB ump with an indicator on the bases? you may see them looking down but its at a stop watch for commercial time between innings, or at a beeper with a red light that TV uses to indicate they are ready to go. I tell anyone using one "do you want to improve your base umpiring and be the best you can be, with a new level of concentration" most guys say yes, I then tell them "stick that indicator where the sun dont shine and work the bases" Goes over pretty well, at least I make my point. At my home association no issues at all due to our training and pro influence, but when I travel to do tournaments in Fla. or up in Coooperstown I see it as a crutch and a sign you dont trust the plate man. If you use one try a game without it and concentrate on the pitcher, runners or think of your next possible play and your mechanics movements, I guarantee you will vastly improve your base game. Not having to move that thing and stick your face in it will free you up to be a better base man and partner. I'm a bit firm on this matter as you can tell but I speak from experience and training, get the indicator off the baeses!

You are one of the ones that have pro training, as do I, but the difference is I don't care if my partner carries one or not. If I was working in minor league parks or all D1 stadiums then I would agree that you shouldn't carry one on the bases. However, many here are working HS, LL and other youth orginizations that either doesn't have a scoreboard at all or poorly run ones at best. If you had read the entire thread, you will see I didn't want a discussion of carry or not carry, but instead how to be more efficent if you do carry one or even just use one on the plate. I was explaining how to mark your indicator so you never have to look in either position. If you use the notching method that explained at the beginning you will see that I was trying to make it so you are free of watching the indicator. Are advocating not using one on the plate?

[mazzamouth]

I have never seen a MLB umpire with an indicator. Probably has nothing to do with the fact that there are at least 3 places where he can see the count on the field...and a professional maintaining it.

I have also never seen a MLB umpire get dressed in the parking lot of the ball park. So I guess I should only work at facilities that provide me with a dressing room.

Stop with the MLB comparison for this topic, it doesn't fit.

And BTW, I don't use an indicator on the bases.

I have seen plenty of MLB guys with Indicators.. Tim McClelland uses one...

[Astrosdawg07]

I have seen plenty of MLB guys with Indicators.. Tim McClelland uses one...

Ya I was gonna say I'm willing to be more MLB guys use one at the plate then don't...

[dileonardoja]

A small adjustment of your mask with the left hand allows you to take a glance at your indicator with no one the wiser.