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CricketChapman

Another BOO

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Very similar to another post:  15U Babe Ruth rec ball, I'm PU.  Bottom 2, no score.  Batting order is David, Edward, Frank.  Edward leads off and singles to right.  David comes up to bat and two pitches later, the defense brings it to my attention that Edward BOO.  I tell defensive HC that the first pitch to David legalized Edward's at-bat, which he accepts without questioning. 

Here's the hypothetical part I want to confirm with U-E:  David proceeded to get on base.  The defense could then appeal that David BOO, correct?  I was thinking this the whole time, but this being rec ball, I figured there'd be no way the coaches would consider it.  In reality, David singled and Frank came up to bat with no appeal for BOO.

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Since Edward was the last legalized batter you should have sent Frank up to the plate with the count David had. Once you let David hit, Edward, not Frank was the proper batter. If Edward was still on base send Frank up.

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17 minutes ago, KenBAZ said:

Since Edward was the last legalized batter you should have sent Frank up to the plate with the count David had. Once you let David hit, Edward, not Frank was the proper batter. If Edward was still on base send Frank up.

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Unless the OP is leaving something out, they never appealed David, just Edward. Thus we don't do anything about David unless they appeal him.

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When David did hit and the question was raised, Frank was the proper batter and should have been sent to the plate to resume the at bat.

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1 minute ago, KenBAZ said:

When David did hit and the question was raised, Frank was the proper batter and should have been sent to the plate to resume the at bat.

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Let me reiterate: With only an appeal of Edward, we do nothing with David.

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Matt:

My understanding of the OP is that the question was raised when David was at the plate, hitting in what was now Frank's spot. Since Edward's at bat was legalized by the first pitch of the next at bat. Frank should have been sent to the plate. Unless I'm missing something.

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40 minutes ago, KenBAZ said:

Matt:

My understanding of the OP is that the question was raised when David was at the plate, hitting in what was now Frank's spot. Since Edward's at bat was legalized by the first pitch of the next at bat. Frank should have been sent to the plate. Unless I'm missing something.

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I can't make this any clearer. The defense asked about Edward. They did not appeal David. We do not do anything until they do, other than deny the appeal of Edward.

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It's not the umpire's job to tell the offense who they should send to the plate.  The umpire just rules on the appeal when it's made.  The defense should have waited for David's plate appearance to end and then appealed, or not, based on the result.

 

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In every BOO situation I've had, BOTH coaches wanted to verify who the next / correct batter was.  So, in the OP, they'd both be asking "so David is correct to stay at the plate?" and we'd get Frank in the box.

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The defense appealed that the wrong batter was at the plate.  As an umpire you say "you are correct", now you put the proper batter (Frank) up to the plate with David's count.  I agree with Ken too.

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I finally understand Matt's point. He is understanding the OP literally as the defense appealing Edward 's batting out if order and looking for an out there. Of course that was properly denied. What did or would happen next is at question. I just assumed that both teams would want to understand who the proper batter was at that point, (Frank). However, maybe I should not volunteer that information unless asked? The offense could choose to protect themselves by sending Frank up and I might be taking away an advantage the defense had by correcting the situation prior to David completing an out. It's hard to imagine no interested party asked who the proper batter was or who would follow David.

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8 hours ago, CricketChapman said:

Here's the hypothetical part I want to confirm with U-E:  David proceeded to get on base.  The defense could then appeal that David BOO, correct? 

Correct

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I finally understand Matt's point. He is understanding the OP literally as the defense appealing Edward 's batting out if order and looking for an out there. Of course that was properly denied. What did or would happen next is at question. I just assumed that both teams would want to understand who the proper batter was at that point, (Frank). However, maybe I should not volunteer that information unless asked? The offense could choose to protect themselves by sending Frank up and I might be taking away an advantage the defense had by correcting the situation prior to David completing an out. It's hard to imagine no interested party asked who the proper batter was or who would follow David.

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With sone of the things coaches and players do, it's pretty easy to imagine for me. All they hear is, "no a pitch has been thrown, so it's too late to appeal" ... they respond with "oh ok, dang" and continue leading their blissful coaching lives

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In reality, David finished batting (walked), the defense said nothing, and Frank came up and batted.  Also, it was the top of the second and not the bottom - my mistake on that.
Here is the best I can recall the conversation between myself and the defensive head coach:

HC:  "Hey Chris, I think they just batted out of order."
Me:  "Okay, John.  Let me see your book."
*I looked at the book, saw the proper order, and asked the runner on first his name, he replied, "Edward."  I then asked the batter his name, and he replied, "David."
Me:  "John, you're right that they batted out of order, but it's too late to appeal now because you already threw a pitch to another batter and legalized Edward's at-bat."
HC:  "Dang.  Okay, that's what I thought, but I wanted to make sure.  Thanks, Chris."

At this point, no one on the offensive team said or did anything.  Remember, this was a rec ball game, I've umpired both these coaches' teams many times over the years, and they know I generally have a reputation for being on top of things.

However, the next time around in the order, before David was supposed to bat in his rightful spot, the offensive manager asked me if they were supposed to follow the order listed in the line-up or the order they had used the first time around - I told him to use the line-up order.

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1 hour ago, KenBAZ said:

I finally understand Matt's point. He is understanding the OP literally as the defense appealing Edward 's batting out if order and looking for an out there. Of course that was properly denied. What did or would happen next is at question. I just assumed that both teams would want to understand who the proper batter was at that point, (Frank). However, maybe I should not volunteer that information unless asked? The offense could choose to protect themselves by sending Frank up and I might be taking away an advantage the defense had by correcting the situation prior to David completing an out. It's hard to imagine no interested party asked who the proper batter was or who would follow David.

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So, we're on the field, and we just told the defense that Edward's time was legalized. Now, someone asks who the proper batter is. Our response is as follows:

"Whoever follows the last legal batter in the order."

This does not tip off either team that David is illegal--they have to be able to discern that for themselves. They may ask if David is a legal batter--at that point, we take action as to his presence in the box, whether it's during the appearance or immediately after. If they ask questions about a specific batter, that's when we can answer them specifically and take action.

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