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Signs from a coach

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Can a pitcher in the Minor division of Little League receive signs from a coach in the dugout?

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1 minute ago, Richvee said:

So....what causes a longer delay? A coach giving signs to F1, or a coach giving signs to F2 who gives a signal to F1? :confused::HS

The catcher needs to know what's coming so relay it through F2. I'm sure you've experienced the result of a catcher not knowing :) .

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2 minutes ago, Guest Mark said:

Can a pitcher in the Minor division of Little League receive signs from a coach in the dugout?

Yes. And in any other LL division too. And under any other baseball rules.

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1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

Yes. And in any other LL division too. And under any other baseball rules.

Is there an official interpretation of this?  The head umpire in our little league has threatened to eject head coaches if they give signs to the pitcher.

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6 minutes ago, Guest signs from a coach said:

Is there an official interpretation of this?  The head umpire in our little league has threatened to eject head coaches if they give signs to the pitcher.

Does the head umpire know what the "RIM" is:

2015 RIM

"The pitcher can take signs from the manager or coach as long as he/she is standing on the pitcher's plate. If not done, after warning, he/she can be removed from the game."

I would add that most of us would allow signs to be given to the pitcher and infielders from the dugout while the pitcher was off the rubber as long as a quick pitch did not result.

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This miss interpretation stems from 5.07 (old 8.00)..

"Pitchers shall take signs from the catcher while in contact with the pitcher's plate."

1. This rule is in place to prevent a pitcher from stepping on the rubber and quick pitching after taking a sign from the catcher off the rubber. 

2. It does not follow, nor is it written anywhere in the rule book that the pitcher cannot take a sign from a coach, bench, or anywhere else for that matter. 

 

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2014 Copy

 

http://www.d9ump.org/umpireFiles/2014_RIM.pdf

 

Quote

8.00 - THE PITCHER (BASEBALL)

 

8.01 - Legal pitching delivery. There are two legal pitching positions, the Windup Position and the Set Position, and either position may be used at any time. Pitchers shall take signs from the catcher while standing on the pitcher’s plate. Pitcher’s may disengage the pitcher’s plate after taking their signs but may not step quickly onto the pitcher’s plate and pitch. This may be judged a quick pitch by the umpire. When the pitcher disengages the pitcher’s plate, he/she must drop the hands to the sides.

Quote

“The Right Call” Casebook -- Comment: The pitcher may take signs from the manager or coach while on the pitchers plate as long as he/she does not “unnecessarily delay” the game. This is also to prevent the pitcher from throwing a “Quick Pitch” by taking the sign while off the pitchers plate and quickly walking through the pitching motion. If the manager/coach insists on calling pitches, the manager/coach should give the signs to the catcher who relays it to the pitcher while the pitcher is on the pitchers plate

 

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31 minutes ago, stkjock said:

The pitcher may take signs from the manager or coach while on the pitchers plate as long as he/she does not “unnecessarily delay” the game

 

 the manager/coach should give the signs to the catcher who relays it to the pitcher while the pitcher is on the pitchers plate

So....what causes a longer delay? A coach giving signs to F1, or a coach giving signs to F2 who gives a signal to F1? :confused::HS

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54 minutes ago, Guest signs from a coach said:

Is there an official interpretation of this?  The head umpire in our little league has threatened to eject head coaches if they give signs to the pitcher.

The rule should read "The pitcher must be in contact with the pitcher's plate when taking signs from the catcher" to make it say what it means, and what becomes fairly obvious if one reads the complete sentence and doesn't stop part way through.

And there in absolutely no place where the rules say the coach cannot give signs.

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5 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

The catcher needs to know what's coming so relay it through F2. I'm sure you've experienced the result of a catcher not knowing :) .

Agree. Bottom line there's no rule against a coach giving signs. Plus, how do I know if he's giving signs to the pitcher or the defense? Why am I looking at the coach in the dugout when I've got a pitcher on the mound with a ball and a batter in the batter's box? 

 If the process a team is using is taking an inordinate amount of time between pitches, address it.   Otherwise, play the game. 

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2 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

The rule should read "The pitcher must be in contact with the pitcher's plate when taking signs from the catcher" to make it say what it means, and what becomes fairly obvious if one reads the complete sentence and doesn't stop part way through.

And there in absolutely no place where the rules say the coach cannot give signs.

Even that would be open to misinterpretation, when people omit the second clause.

Another version: "If the pitcher takes signs from the catcher, then he shall do so while in contact with the pitcher's plate."

How gratifying that we all agree on the substance of this rule. Some years ago (and I think on another forum) people were going to the mat for a different view.

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If you are going to EJ a coach for this I sincerely hope that the umpire is wearing disposable gloves for that side of the stick...

 

 

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That's not even a ****y end of the stick - it's just plain wrong. Sounds like the guy needs some re-education.

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6 hours ago, maven said:

Even that would be open to misinterpretation, when people omit the second clause.

Another version: "If the pitcher takes signs from the catcher, then he shall do so while in contact with the pitcher's plate."

How gratifying that we all agree on the substance of this rule. Some years ago (and I think on another forum) people were going to the mat for a different view.

I like your version.

 

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12 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Are you both saying the pitcher can't look at the catcher while astride the rubber?

How did you ever derive that?

 

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6 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

How did you ever derive that?

 

It's the same kind of "logic" that is used with the wording today and with the other examples in this thread.

 

I read somewhere where softball was having a similar problem, so just alowed F1 to tak the signs from the coach.  Then, they ran into some problems with a "quick pitch" (or equivalent).  SO now, and I forget the specifics, F1 must either pause once takiing the mound or "take or pretend to take" signs from F2 once on the rubber.

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3 hours ago, noumpere said:

It's the same kind of "logic" that is used with the wording today and with the other examples in this thread.

 

I read somewhere where softball was having a similar problem, so just alowed F1 to tak the signs from the coach.  Then, they ran into some problems with a "quick pitch" (or equivalent).  SO now, and I forget the specifics, F1 must either pause once takiing the mound or "take or pretend to take" signs from F2 once on the rubber.

Doesn't softball have a rule about presenting the ball which should trigger the batter.?

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1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

Doesn't softball have a rule about presenting the ball which should trigger the batter.?

I've been battling my daughter with this all season.  She pitches (10U level) and she takes the pitcher's plate with her hands together, which is not legal.  The umpires do not call it, so I can't reinforce the fact that someday one will.  She's required to have her hands separated, then bring them together to pitch.  She can have them together for 1 to 10 seconds before delivering the ball, based on my limited understanding of softball rules.

Main reason I want her to do it the right way is that it slows her down.  She throws 95% fastballs, so there's no signs really to give.  When I want her to throw a change (which isn't often as there's no reason to speed up MOST of the batters' bats), I use a certain word the pitcher and catcher both pick up on.  I probably should force her to take a sign from the catcher on every pitch, but at this level, I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible.

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Guest Signs from a coach

Can I use the RIM 2015 (above) as an official interpretation of this rule and provide it to our league president? Or does our umpire get to make their own interpretation on this rule and decide how it is enforced by our league?

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above is the 2014 RIM - They could have a "in league" rule, however, official rules would be governed by the LLI docs IMHO.

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20 hours ago, Guest Signs from a coach said:

Can I use the RIM 2015 (above) as an official interpretation of this rule and provide it to our league president? Or does our umpire get to make their own interpretation on this rule and decide how it is enforced by our league?

Would you let your league umpires decide that batters were out on strike 2?

 

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