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Obstruction in MLB


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I was going to append this to a similar question in this forum, but I didn't want to confuse the different questions and hijack that thread. This is an obstruction question based on a MLB game situation from this weekend.

Runner on 2. Grounder hit between SS and 3B. F5 comes in to pick up the hit, misses, but obstructs R2 in his attempt to achieve 3B. U3 awards home to R2. In all the action, R2 was thrown out at home and PU called him out. I'm not actually sure it's accurate to say U3 "overruled" PU because U3 had already signaled the award before PU called the out.

Why not award 3B (which would be one base past the last legally touched base)? Is it because R2 was already in scoring position and likely would have scored anyway without the obstruction?

/g/

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No play was being made on R2 at the time he was obstructed which would mean type B obstruction and a delayed dead ball. Action is allowed to continue and then when it's all done the umpire will award

A clip can be found here: OBS Braves @ Nats In the Video box it's the clip called 'Werth scores'

They anounce for a living. They don't umpire for a living. Interference/obstruction is a semantic anyhow. Both mean that someonme impeded someone else.

I was going to append this to a similar question in this forum, but I didn't want to confuse the different questions and hijack that thread. This is an obstruction question based on a MLB game situation from this weekend.

Runner on 2. Grounder hit between SS and 3B. F5 comes in to pick up the hit, misses, but obstructs R2 in his attempt to achieve 3B. U3 awards home to R2. In all the action, R2 was thrown out at home and PU called him out. I'm not actually sure it's accurate to say U3 "overruled" PU because U3 had already signaled the award before PU called the out.

Why not award 3B (which would be one base past the last legally touched base)? Is it because R2 was already in scoring position and likely would have scored anyway without the obstruction?

/g/

HTBT, probably. Do you have a link to the video clip?

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I was going to append this to a similar question in this forum, but I didn't want to confuse the different questions and hijack that thread. This is an obstruction question based on a MLB game situation from this weekend.

Runner on 2. Grounder hit between SS and 3B. F5 comes in to pick up the hit, misses, but obstructs R2 in his attempt to achieve 3B. U3 awards home to R2. In all the action, R2 was thrown out at home and PU called him out. I'm not actually sure it's accurate to say U3 "overruled" PU because U3 had already signaled the award before PU called the out.

Why not award 3B (which would be one base past the last legally touched base)? Is it because R2 was already in scoring position and likely would have scored anyway without the obstruction?

/g/

No play was being made on R2 at the time he was obstructed which would mean type B obstruction and a delayed dead ball. Action is allowed to continue and then when it's all done the umpire will award bases in order to nullify the act of obstruction. In this case he judged that R2 would have made home had he not been obstructed. The one base beyond the last base lagally touched falls under type A obstruction which is when a play is being made on a runner at the time of obstruction. If that were the case it would have been a dead ball and the play at the plate would have never happened.

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No play was being made on R2 at the time he was obstructed which would mean type B obstruction and a delayed dead ball. Action is allowed to continue and then when it's all done the umpire will award bases in order to nullify the act of obstruction. In this case he judged that R2 would have made home had he not been obstructed. The one base beyond the last base lagally touched falls under type A obstruction which is when a play is being made on a runner at the time of obstruction. If that were the case it would have been a dead ball and the play at the plate would have never happened.

Perfect explanation. Thanks, carolinablue. sdix00, I tried finding the clip but all I could find were a few news stories that mention the play in passing. FWIW, it was Braves vs. Nationals. Chipper Jones obstructed Jayson Werth on an Adam LaRoche single.

Filing away for future use.

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And, as usual, the announcers get it wrong. "That's got to be interference!" They do this for a living, right?

They anounce for a living. They don't umpire for a living.

Interference/obstruction is a semantic anyhow. Both mean that someonme impeded someone else.

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And, as usual, the announcers get it wrong. "That's got to be interference!" They do this for a living, right?

They anounce for a living. They don't umpire for a living.

Interference/obstruction is a semantic anyhow. Both mean that someonme impeded someone else.

I understand that, and the play-by-play guy gets a pass, but the color guy should know better.

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Most of the time at least one is a retired professional baseball player. This means he made a frigging living playing the game and probably 12 years before that. You would think at some time they would pick up a little bit about the game. I know that isn't true but if you are now make a living talking about the game you played for over half your life, aquainting yourself with the finer points might be good.

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but the color guy should know better.

Why - he's more likely to not know than the play-by-play guy. He's there to comment on how the game is playerd.

The play-by-play guy is most likely a broadcast journalism graduate and the color guy is likely a former player in some capacity. Of course, neither are/were umpires, so I guess it's no wonder they only have a cursory knowledge of the rules. You are right about obstruction/interference being identified incorrectly not being that big of a deal for the average fan.

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The problem is there is a real difference in the baseball world and the annoouncers are spreading the myths. Obstruction means runners are being moved, interference means players are being called out, big difference. Yes, there are exceptions on both sides of the equation but generally true.

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Most of the time at least one is a retired professional baseball player. This means he made a frigging living playing the game and probably 12 years before that. You would think at some time they would pick up a little bit about the game. I know that isn't true but if you are now make a living talking about the game you played for over half your life, aquainting yourself with the finer points might be good.

They've forgotten more about how the finer points of playing the game go than most of us ever knew in the first place. They're hired to explain the finer points of playing, not to know whether the correct term is "interference" or "obstruction".

Whether or not something is officially called interference or obstruction means nothing to the averege Joe and doesn't need to mean anything to them. In fact, if the rules had been written calling them offensive interference and defensive interference instead of using the word obstruction it wouldn't make one whit of difference on what it makes illegal and how it is administered. You're arguing something that is basically meaningless.

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So it's OK to take their basic cluelessness and then try to explain how the umpires screw up rulings or how they think the umpires are out of position and don't have a clue what they are talking about. They spout stupid things like hards are part of the bat, completely misinformed discussions of balks, batter's interference, running lane violations, how IFFs are interpreted, and on and on and on. This just one example of their ineptitude when applied to rules or anything to do with an umpire.

Now, I could forgive not knowing some of these things because they aren't umpires but many insist on second guessing what being done on the field and just say the same stupid things that their LL coaches taught them.

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Upton's Rundown

Here you go UIC.

I have obstruction, Upton gets 3B. From the 3BU's position, the contact is hard to see. I will give him that. Possibly go to PU and 2BU for help. I really don't see how you can call him out after being obstructed like that, even though he was a dead duck. A rule is a rule.

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Off topic but does anyone know what stitch # hat DiMuro is using? I'd love to be able to wear a hat underneath my HSM.

I wear a 4-stitch and have worn 6. I would wear an 8 but I can only get them in flex-fit.

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So it's OK to take their basic cluelessness and then try to explain how the umpires screw up rulings or how they think the umpires are out of position and don't have a clue what they are talking about. They spout stupid things like hards are part of the bat, completely misinformed discussions of balks, batter's interference, running lane violations, how IFFs are interpreted, and on and on and on. This just one example of their ineptitude when applied to rules or anything to do with an umpire.

Now, I could forgive not knowing some of these things because they aren't umpires but many insist on second guessing what being done on the field and just say the same stupid things that their LL coaches taught them.

That's my problem w/these guys, too. And, it's not just OBS/INT; it's all the stupid stuff they say. You know what? If you don't know or you're not sure, go ahead and express your opinion, but say you're not sure. Quit just makin' stuff up to fill air-time!

And, I'm over expecting that if the announcers know their stuff and correct what they say that the average fan's knowledge or enjoyment of the game will improve. (OK - there was a time when I believed that) It's about not making themselves look stupid to those of us (not just umpires) who do know the difference.

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I enjoy listening to ex-pros talk about the game, how the players work, strategies, why they are doing what they are doing. That is what they are paid to do, speak about their experience. What they don't have a clue about is the rules of the game, umpire mechanics and why they are doing what they are doing. Then they take zero knowledge and talk like they are experts and denegrate some of the best professionals in the country.

Rich says obstruction/interference is semantics but it really isn't. It may be less important than some of the other bad information they put out but it is still incorrect.

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Most of the time at least one is a retired professional baseball player. This means he made a frigging living playing the game and probably 12 years before that. You would think at some time they would pick up a little bit about the game. I know that isn't true but if you are now make a living talking about the game you played for over half your life, aquainting yourself with the finer points might be good.

Others agree with you.... but of course, they are umpires too!

http://rulebookguru.blogspot.com/2011/02/broadcasters-need-spring-training-too.html

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Well, first of all you are taught to run the player back to the bag he came from and make 1 throw to get the runner going back into that bag, and if you don't get him at least he didn't advance. Go watch the old Baltimore Orioles under Earl Weaver. Now, the 2nd thing any player is told to do as a fielder, is to peal the hell out of the runners way as soon as you throw the ball to one of your teammates, just in case the runner is able to stop and turn back around and keep the rundown going. The runner on the other hand is taught to go after a fielder who is even remotely in the way of the base path to try and "draw" an obstruction call from the umpire. You can see the fielder is pissed for not following the number one rule of not pealing off and getting totally out of the runners way, so the runner cannot draw the obstruction. The fielder runs right up his back "just as" the runner is starting that diving move to his right that he was going to use to try and avoid the tag, which IMHO, would have put him outside the baseline had the fielder not actually made contact with him, which could cause a obstruction situation just before the out of the baseline infraction. Maybe, from where he was, Barry had the dive out of the baseline occurring just before the crash from behind (and obstruction) by the fielder, however, with the armchair benefit of instant replay, it looked like the contact from behind occurred just prior to the dive out of the baseline IMHO. Just my 2 cents as the old saying goes. Once again, this was a terribly executed rundown by the defense in which 2 possible errors by the defense occurred on 1 rundown (not running the guy back to the base to which he came from, and not pealing off far enough so no possible contact can be made with the runner who may try and "draw" an obstruction call).

And hey, isn't it great that everybody's hero and great example of shy, hustling, unassuming, team player who never draws attention to himself, and just goes about his job, and someone every child should aspire to become in every single way, both on and off the field, Manny Ramirez, has declared his retirement. Another fine example of a humble, dedicated, sacrifice himself on the field and off for the team, play the game the right way individual, has unfortunately retired.

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