Fed Appeal play on NJ Test

[LMSANS]

This is on the NJ test this year...

Question #18

The bases are loaded and there are two outs. B1 hits a triple but misses second base. A legal appeal is made by the defense. How many runs should score?

• a.
  • 0

• b.
  • 2

• c.
  • 3

What have you got?

[jjskitours]

3 assuming the appeal was made after R1 crossed the plate.

[johnnyg08]

Three

[maven]

This should not be a difficult question, even for the NJ brain trust.

[Welpe]

Agree, three.

This play does not meet any of the 9-1-1 exceptions so all preceding runners score.

[noumpere]

So now that everyone agrees the correct answer is 3, I'm waiting to see how NJ messed this up....

[LMSANS]

I messed this one up.  Had a severe mental block on this and a long discussion with a friend that said the answer was 3.  I thought it was 1.  Why?  I don't know, he's on third.

I can be very stupid sometimes.

 

Here is one that NJ did screw up...

Which of the following is considered to be a foul ball?

a.A fly ball hits the foul pole.

b.A batted ball hits the ground next to home plate and comes to rest on top of the plate.

c.A batted ball hits the pitcher's plate, rises, and directly falls into a dugout.

d.An umpire declares a batted ball "Foul", as a fielder is catching a fly ball in foul territory near a foul line.

e.All of the above.

[Jimurray]

13 minutes ago, LMSANS said:

C"I messed this one up.  Had a severe mental block on this and a long discussion with a friend that said the answer was 3.  I thought it was 1.  Why?  I don't know, he's on third.

I can be very stupid sometimes.

 

Here is one that NJ did screw up...

Which of the following is considered to be a foul ball?

 

a.A fly ball hits the foul pole.

 

b.A batted ball hits the ground next to home plate and comes to rest on top of the plate.

 

c.A batted ball hits the pitcher's plate, rises, and directly falls into a dugout.

 

d.An umpire declares a batted ball "Foul", as a fielder is catching a fly ball in foul territory near a foul line.

 

e.All of the above.

 

"C seems pretty straight foward.

[Richvee]

12 minutes ago, LMSANS said:

I messed this one up.  Had a severe mental block on this and a long discussion with a friend that said the answer was 3.  I thought it was 1.  Why?  I don't know, he's on third.

I can be very stupid sometimes.

 

Here is one that NJ did screw up...

Which of the following is considered to be a foul ball?

 

a.A fly ball hits the foul pole.

 

b.A batted ball hits the ground next to home plate and comes to rest on top of the plate.

 

c.A batted ball hits the pitcher's plate, rises, and directly falls into a dugout.

 

d.An umpire declares a batted ball "Foul", as a fielder is catching a fly ball in foul territory near a foul line.

 

e.All of the above.

 

I've got this one on my test. Haven't submitted it yet, but I'm thinking they're looking for "c" on this one. . I know...once declared foul,it's foul,  in some sort of twisted New Jersey way, their reasoning would be something like, "Well, in "d" is foul due to the umpire's call, it's still a caught fly for an out, but "c" is just foul, and only foul.

[Richvee]

All in all I thought my 50 questions were pretty easy. really only needed to verify a couple by looking them up. I've got a study group tomorrow night. I'll probably submit after that.

[maven]

The answer is clearly (e).

(a) is considered foul because it hit the foul pole on the next field over.

(b) is considered foul because it also hit the batter legally in the box.

(c) is considered foul because doesn't satisfy the definition of a fair ball.

(d) is considered foul because it satisfies the definition of a foul ball.

What do I win?

BTW, both (c) and (d) are foul balls.

[Richvee]

This one I was wondering about. 

B1 enters the batter's box with a composite bat that shows signs of wear (spidering of the composite material). Opposing Coach questions if this is an illegal bat. Umpire shall:

 

• a.
  • Direct B1 to secure a legal bat.

 

• b.
  • Declare B1 out and the Head Coach is ejected.

 

• c.
  • Declare B1 out and his head coach is restricted to the bench.

 

• d.
  • The player and his coach are warned and a subsequent violation will result in an ejection of the coach and player.

 

 

Does the "spidering" make it illegal, or do we just direct him to get another bat? 

Again, my NJ instincts tell me they want us to know the penalty for an illegal bat... But if that's the case, they haven't told us if this is the team's 1st illegal bat of the day. 

 

[maven]

3 minutes ago, Richvee said:

 

Does the "spidering" make it illegal, or do we just direct him to get another bat? 

Based on 1-3-5, I'd say neither. The bat is illegal if it is "broken, cracked, or dented," not if it shows "signs of wear." So I'd go with option (e) Ignore and play on.

But, if you judge that "spidering" = broken, there is no penalty: such a bat "shall be removed without penalty." Direct him to get a new bat.

Now if he brings that back with him next time, then we have a problem.

[Richvee]

18 minutes ago, maven said:

Based on 1-3-5, I'd say neither. The bat is illegal if it is "broken, cracked, or dented," not if it shows "signs of wear." So I'd go with option (e) Ignore and play on.

But, if you judge that "spidering" = broken, there is no penalty: such a bat "shall be removed without penalty." Direct him to get a new bat.

Now if he brings that back with him next time, then we have a problem.

This has always been a point of contention for me.

1.3.5

... Bats that are broken, cracked or dented or that deface the ball, i.e., tear the ball, shall be removed without penalty...

1.3.5 SITUATION D:

The first baseman hits a home run with the bases empty using a bat that, while otherwise legal, has a small crack in the barrel. The plate umpire notices the crack: (a) as the batter enters the box;or (b) when the defense complains before the next pitch that it is an illegal bat.

RULING: In (a), the bat is illegal upon detection as the head coach had verified that all equipment was legal The first baseman is declared out and the penalties of 4-1-3b are applied to the head coach. In (b), the home run stands. The bat will be removed from the game. If the same bat were subsequently to be used later in the game, it would be subject to the illegal bat rule

I understand "b" as we have no way of knowing if the crack happened after the swing for the HR. But...I have a problem here...

"The plate umpire notices the crack: (a) as the batter enters the box;"...Isn't it the plate umpire's responsabilty to remove the bat from the game if he saw the crack as the batter entered the box?....Not wait until he hits a HR then call him out saying..."I saw the crack when he stepped to the plate."

[Kevin_K]

52 minutes ago, maven said:

The answer is clearly (e).

(a) is considered foul because it hit the foul pole on the next field over.

(b) is considered foul because it also hit the batter legally in the box.

(c) is considered foul because doesn't satisfy the definition of a fair ball.

(d) is considered foul because it satisfies the definition of a foul ball.

What do I win?

BTW, both (c) and (d) are foul balls.

@maven .....you are one of the NJ test writers, aren't you?

[noumpere]

14 hours ago, Richvee said:

I've got this one on my test. Haven't submitted it yet, but I'm thinking they're looking for "c" on this one. . I know...once declared foul,it's foul,  in some sort of twisted New Jersey way, their reasoning would be something like, "Well, in "d" is foul due to the umpire's call, it's still a caught fly for an out, but "c" is just foul, and only foul.

That's true only for balls that subsequently contact the ground.  So in D, it's NOT a foul ball (well, it's not dead -- it could be worded better, but even some posters here have intermingled the words) .. 

 

C is clearly correct -- what did NJ say?

[noumpere]

14 hours ago, Richvee said:

This one I was wondering about. 

B1 enters the batter's box with a composite bat that shows signs of wear (spidering of the composite material). Opposing Coach questions if this is an illegal bat. Umpire shall:

 

• a.
  • Direct B1 to secure a legal bat.

 

• b.
  • Declare B1 out and the Head Coach is ejected.

 

• c.
  • Declare B1 out and his head coach is restricted to the bench.

 

• d.
  • The player and his coach are warned and a subsequent violation will result in an ejection of the coach and player.

 

 

Does the "spidering" make it illegal, or do we just direct him to get another bat? 

Again, my NJ instincts tell me they want us to know the penalty for an illegal bat... But if that's the case, they haven't told us if this is the team's 1st illegal bat of the day. 

 

Since all of the options deal with the bat being "illegal" then just assume it is.  And, since no mention was made of an earlier bat ....

[maven]

13 hours ago, Richvee said:

I understand "b" as we have no way of knowing if the crack happened after the swing for the HR. But...I have a problem here...

"The plate umpire notices the crack: (a) as the batter enters the box;"...Isn't it the plate umpire's responsabilty to remove the bat from the game if he saw the crack as the batter entered the box?....Not wait until he hits a HR then call him out saying..."I saw the crack when he stepped to the plate."

You don't really have a problem, because there are no ties. Just as happens at 1B, something happens first: either he enters the box first, or we notice first. If he enters first, then he's out. If we notice first, then he fetches a new bat. The case play reflects this distinction.

[Welpe]

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

That's true only for balls that subsequently contact the ground.  So in D, it's NOT a foul ball (well, it's not dead -- it could be worded better, but even some posters here have intermingled the words) .. 

 

C is clearly correct -- what did NJ say?

I agree, it is C.

D is not a foul ball due to 5-1-1-h.

Quote

h. the umpire handles a live ball or calls "Time" for inspecting the ball or for any other reason, including items in Section 2 or gives the "Do Not Pitch Signal" or inadvertently announces "Foul" on a ball that touches the ground; 

 

[maven]

3 minutes ago, Welpe said:

D is not a foul ball due to 5-1-1-h.

 

We do not have enough information in response choice (d) to determine its fair/foul status. The fact that the action described does not satisfy 5-1-1h (because the ball is caught rather than touching the ground) is also not enough information. This ball could be fair OR foul, even if not foul "for that reason."

As everyone here knows, it matters only where the fly ball was when the fielder touched it. Being "near the line" and "caught" isn't enough for us to know its fair/foul status.

[Welpe]

You are correct, of course, and noumpere addressed that in his post which I conveniently glossed over in my mind. 

I believe the answer the test is looking for is C for the reason I stated above.

[Richvee]

12 hours ago, noumpere said:

That's true only for balls that subsequently contact the ground.  So in D, it's NOT a foul ball (well, it's not dead -- it could be worded better, but even some posters here have intermingled the words) .. 

 

C is clearly correct -- what did NJ say?

Our study group tonight says "c" is the answer. I agree. The bat question, our consensus is "worn" =  Cracked, dented, etc. , so instruct the batter to get another bat.

[Richvee]

Here's on I thought should be a delayed dead ball because we wait and see if F2 makes the play on R3 before we enforce the BI, but my study group is saying since it's "follow through" INT, kill it right away and call R3 out.

Thoughts?

With less than two outs, R3 attempts to steal home. B2 swings and misses the pitch for strike two. On B2's follow-through, his bat releases and strikes F2 in the facemask. The ball is dead immediately and R3 is declared out.

a corect

b incorrect

 

[maven]

10 hours ago, Richvee said:

Here's on I thought should be a delayed dead ball because we wait and see if F2 makes the play on R3 before we enforce the BI, but my study group is saying since it's "follow through" INT, kill it right away and call R3 out.

Thoughts?

With less than two outs, R3 attempts to steal home. B2 swings and misses the pitch for strike two. On B2's follow-through, his bat releases and strikes F2 in the facemask. The ball is dead immediately and R3 is declared out.

a corect

b incorrect

 

You're correct; the statement is not. "When there are not two outs and the runner is advancing to home plate, if the runner is tagged out, the ball remains live and interfer­ence is ignored." 7-3-5 PEN

[Richvee]

15 hours ago, maven said:

You're correct; the statement is not. "When there are not two outs and the runner is advancing to home plate, if the runner is tagged out, the ball remains live and interfer­ence is ignored." 7-3-5 PEN

I went against my better judgement, and changed my answer to "correct",thinking, Maybe FED wants time called when it's follow through INT even though I could find no case play or rule to support that.

Turns out I got a 100. That means NJ, in it's infinite wisdom, says  this statement is correct.

I feel cheap for caving. Last year when I knew NJ wanted the answer to be a balk when, with R2, F1 turns and steps to 2nd throws to F6 who is off the base, I refused and answered "no balk" and was happy with my 98 score.